Would you choose an Endeavorcat 34 or Gemini 105mc to cross the Atlantic?

[river251]

Thanks Davy J. Any relation to Davy Jones? The locker guy, not the Monkee

I have no idea if I will buy a boat. I have yet to spend time on the water but anticipate crewing within the next year. Probably won't find crewing on a Prout. But I must have bookmarked 30 of them on the market now (many duplicates probably) so I will try hard to get a test drive before initiating a sale. One broker I've been talking to was willing to set that up on a Gemini. But I am not yet decided between a monohull and a cat. John Kretschmer, who I have respect for from his videos, a book I have, and reviews, reviewed the Prout and stated that it was a real blue water capable boat. That is good enough for me. That is what I was looking for, a cat that could cross the Atlantic when I'm ready. Other sources have confirmed this over and over. I like the low profile, which is what I think people mean by less windage? Somehow it reminds me of a 60s Dodge Challenger. Anyway, on the monohull end, I like the Contessa 32, but there are other possibilities. I'm not making any decision until I have spent time on the water on both. And have the money to do it right. That may never happen. But I'm pretty strongly thinking I will end up buying a boat of some sort, and sail the Caribbean. I really want to go across the Atlantic and sail the Med too, just to be around the ancient culture, and visit the great cathedrals and universities (I'm an academic). And anchor off the eastern Italian coast...which has to be the most beautiful place on earth, Caribbean notwithstanding. So you may be holding your breath for a while waiting to hear about my crossing.

Originally Posted by Davy J

Well, there it is boys........ some random guy on the internet that owns a monohull is telling me to buy a boat they built so well, they went bankrupt 18 years ago.

No thanks.

To the OP, here you go, a couple of beautiful gems. They look so seaworthy, comfortable and so up to date:

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...goose-3707071/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...se-37-3721565/


Good luck on your future purchase, and let us know how the crossing goes.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by river251

Thanks Davy J. Any relation to Davy Jones? The locker guy, not the Monkee

My real name is Davy J, my last name is not Jones, but it is very close. I think I'd rather be related to the locker guy than the monkee guy......

Here is something to consider. How many times do you think you might cross an ocean?

For all the talk about ocean going boats, most people might cross an ocean only once or twice in a lifetime.

One idea is to buy any boat you like. Then if you don't feel you can cross the north Atlantic in it, you sail to Fort Lauderdale. Dockwise will pick you up and drop you off in the Med.

Sure it's pricey, about 15 to 20K, but for all those other days you own that boat, you will get to enjoy a boat you really like.

Edit to add:
https://www.yacht-
transport.com/about/

Video of divers loading and blocking yachts:
https://storage.googleapis.com/norse...tvid_1-low.mp4

[river251]

Originally Posted by Davy J

My real name is Davy J, my last name is not Jones, but it is very close. I think I'd rather be related to the locker guy than the monkee guy......

Here is something to consider. How many times do you think you might cross an ocean?

For all the talk about ocean going boats, most people might cross an ocean only once or twice in a lifetime.

One idea is to buy any boat you like. Then if you don't feel you can cross the north Atlantic in it, you sail to Fort Lauderdale. Dockwise will pick you up and drop you off in the Med.

Sure it's pricey, about 15 to 20K, but for all those other days you own that boat, you will get to enjoy a boat you really like.

Edit to add:
https://www.yacht-
transport.com/about/

Video of divers loading and blocking yachts:
https://storage.googleapis.com/norse...tvid_1-low.mp4

Well, if I am going to spend the money and make the commitment, it seems more prudent to get something that will do everything I may want to do. A 105mc or a Snowgoose 37 would do the trick. I think the Endeavorcat is probably not a first choice though when I asked the question I thought it was.

I have not idea about crossing the ocean. We'll see what happens, to quote some leader somewhere.

[tomtriad]

If you really like to sail the Prout Snowgoose is not an optimum choice. They are heavy, slow, underpowered, have no underbridge clearance, and must motor upwind to make any progress in that direction. Two of my friends I met cruising in the Bahamas have had the model, and they are usually waiting for the wind to blow in the right direction, or for it to settle down so they can motor upwind without pounding too much.

If you do buy one, make sure that all the watertight bulkheads fore and aft are tight and the spaces inside empty; the second friends did not and lost their Snowgoose after it took on water, flooded one hull, capsized and sank off the north coats of the DR. They were lucky to be rescued by a local freighter who heard their mayday call on vhf.

[river251]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

In production boats, no design intended just for coastal cruising is suitable for ocean crossings. You might get lucky, but that is foolhardy.

In cats, you need minimal windage and therefore, a minimum of head room, if only 34'. Think, sitting headroom.
You need good 360 degree visibility from the helm, light weight, strong construction, an easily reffed rig, and enough wing clearance to take your RIB through the wing tunnel. Tall order!

The best options in this size are custom one off designs. Most production boats are designed to sale, not sail! Palatial accommodations at the dock are what sells!

Mark, can you name a few one-off design cats for me to check out?

[river251]

Originally Posted by tomtriad

If you really like to sail the Prout Snowgoose is not an optimum choice. They are heavy, slow, underpowered, have no underbridge clearance, and must motor upwind to make any progress in that direction. Two of my friends I met cruising in the Bahamas have had the model, and they are usually waiting for the wind to blow in the right direction, or for it to settle down so they can motor upwind without pounding too much.

If you do buy one, make sure that all the watertight bulkheads fore and aft are tight and the spaces inside empty; the second friends did not and lost their Snowgoose after it took on water, flooded one hull, capsized and sank off the north coats of the DR. They were lucky to be rescued by a local freighter who heard their mayday call on vhf.

Well that's encouraging. Tom, without spending a half-million, what cat would you recommend?

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by river251

Thanks Cpt Mark. How much weight you reckon to strip away with those measures?

easy 600 pounds. A lot depends on how much bottom paint is on the hull. Since nobody hardly ever strips it all the way down there could be that much there alone.

Reducing the weight aloft is a huge deal for performance as well as weight reduction.

In answer to your question, I really don't know but removing the weight off a cat is always a good thing. My rigging needs to be replaced so that just makes sense.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by river251

Mark, can you name a few one-off design cats for me to check out?

I'd like to but I really don't know that market at all. One off's you need to be super diligent about everything in the survey as it could be awesome or total crap.

Think of cats as 2 different species. You have performance cats that are fast racing machines and you have cruising cats which are generally quicker then a mono, have a much nicer ride and much nicer living quarters but by no means are they fast like a performance cat.

I never concern myself about how fast the boat can go to get out of the way of say a hurricane. I do however always concern myself with can this boat ride out a hurricane? You might have a 20 knot boat and still not be able to outrun a hurricane or storm. You're not doing 20 knots in crappy sea conditions.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by Davy J

My real name is Davy J, my last name is not Jones, but it is very close. I think I'd rather be related to the locker guy than the monkee guy......

Here is something to consider. How many times do you think you might cross an ocean?

For all the talk about ocean going boats, most people might cross an ocean only once or twice in a lifetime.

One idea is to buy any boat you like. Then if you don't feel you can cross the north Atlantic in it, you sail to Fort Lauderdale. Dockwise will pick you up and drop you off in the Med.

Sure it's pricey, about 15 to 20K, but for all those other days you own that boat, you will get to enjoy a boat you really like.

Edit to add:
https://www.yacht-
transport.com/about/

Video of divers loading and blocking yachts:
https://storage.googleapis.com/norse...tvid_1-low.mp4

Davy J makes a good point. Another way to look at it is this. You are NOT buying your forever boat, you're buying your 1st boat and if crossing an ocean isn't in your immediate horizon (1-2 or 3 years) then don't worry about it. Spend a lot of time on boats for sale, think about things you do every day, bathe, bio stuff, cooking, cleaning, living. If Say the Gemini fit your bill then go for it. Look at where the engine(s) are and how easy it is to access and service them. What about other stuff, batteries, pumps, etc. Let's say you buy a Gemini and outgrow it in a couple of years, no problem, they have a known resale value which a one off won't have.

Carolyn Shearlock of Theboatgalley.com and her husband cruise the caribbean with their Gemini. Check out he site and email her. She's friendly and experienced in both mono's and the Gemini. I wouldn't choose one but YMMV and it's what floats your boat not mine lol

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by river251

Thanks Davy J. Any relation to Davy Jones? The locker guy, not the Monkee

I have no idea if I will buy a boat. I have yet to spend time on the water but anticipate crewing within the next year. Probably won't find crewing on a Prout. But I must have bookmarked 30 of them on the market now (many duplicates probably) so I will try hard to get a test drive before initiating a sale. One broker I've been talking to was willing to set that up on a Gemini. But I am not yet decided between a monohull and a cat. John Kretschmer, who I have respect for from his videos, a book I have, and reviews, reviewed the Prout and stated that it was a real blue water capable boat. That is good enough for me. That is what I was looking for, a cat that could cross the Atlantic when I'm ready. Other sources have confirmed this over and over. I like the low profile, which is what I think people mean by less windage? Somehow it reminds me of a 60s Dodge Challenger. Anyway, on the monohull end, I like the Contessa 32, but there are other possibilities. I'm not making any decision until I have spent time on the water on both. And have the money to do it right. That may never happen. But I'm pretty strongly thinking I will end up buying a boat of some sort, and sail the Caribbean. I really want to go across the Atlantic and sail the Med too, just to be around the ancient culture, and visit the great cathedrals and universities (I'm an academic). And anchor off the eastern Italian coast...which has to be the most beautiful place on earth, Caribbean notwithstanding. So you may be holding your breath for a while waiting to hear about my crossing.

River,

OK, so you're brand new to this. Go get some sailing experience. Join a club, find out where the beer can racing is and/or the very competetive racing is. You'll learn a lot about sailing and boats. You can but any number of great old plastic mono cruising boats for nothing as people want the latest and greatest many of which are just marketing. You could buy an old Columbia and be sailing the Caribbean next year for not a lot of money. Is it fast, sexy? No. But will it get you there, yes. There are so many makes/models to choose from. yes, Cats are all the rage now and I suspect that market to only continue to grow but you don't have o have one. I'd rather have an old mono and go now than dream about the ideal cat or mono and never go.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Carolyn Shearlock of Theboatgalley.com and her husband cruise the caribbean with their Gemini. Check out he site and email her. She's friendly and experienced in both mono's and the Gemini.

Not that this matters much to the OP, but I have been on Carolyn and Dave's boat, and they have been on mine.

They own a 105M. Dave told me he wishes they would have bought the 105Mc model. So take that for what it's worth.

Anyway, they are very nice people and have a lot of experience.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Not that this matters much to the OP, but I have been on Carolyn and Dave's boat, and they have been on mine.

They own a 105M. Dave told me he wishes they would have bought the 105Mc model. So take that for what it's worth.

Anyway, they are very nice people and have a lot of experience.

Is there much difference between the MC and the M, Dave,
I know the early Gems didnt have the steps on the Back of the transom,
Ive never seen another Gem of any year or Kind,

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Is there much difference between the MC and the M, Dave,
I know the early Gems didnt have the steps on the Back of the transom,
Ive never seen another Gem of any year or Kind,

There are many subtle differences in the models, but there are a few big ones.

IIRC, Barefoot Gal did not have the sling seat on the transom, it also did not have the cockpit enclosure. Earlier in this thread I also posted a link to a PCI interview which stated that the interior liner was different and that the rig was smaller on the 105M.

Many of the differences may not even be noticed by someone who didn't own one model or the other.

Another thing, I've been aboard about twenty 105Mc's. There are even differences in the same model, from year to year........

There was also a very big difference in the boats built by PCI and the models built by Hunter.

[smj]

Taken from Carolyn Shearlocks blog.

“The Tayana 37 is a true blue water boat. The Gemini is a coastal cruiser. They are very, very different boats and designed for different purposes.
Because of that, it’s almost impossible to truly compare them.”

[river251]

Originally Posted by smj

Taken from Carolyn Shearlocks blog.

“The Tayana 37 is a true blue water boat. The Gemini is a coastal cruiser. They are very, very different boats and designed for different purposes.
Because of that, it’s almost impossible to truly compare them.”

You prompted me to look that up. High praise for the Gemini here. As far as living it is vastly superior to the Prout.

https://theboatgalley.com/thoughts-o...ini-catamaran/