Would I be crazy to cross oceans on a 32' LWL, 11' beam catamaran?

[dustman]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Apparently the Dustman has either realized the folly of his proposition or it was indeed a troll. If he was serious, I hope the universal condemnation of his idea has caused some rethinking.

So Dustman, if you are still reading these lines, do realize that we ain't just being mean. Your idea is not in fact feasible... but there are plenty of low cost (relatively) means of doing the passages you had envisioned. Many of us are happy to help... when we don't think encouragement would lead to disaster.

Jim

I realize full well what everyone is trying to do. I have been overwhelmed by both the number of polite, informative and caring responses as well as the number of people who just seem to want to down on you in the assurity that they know more than you about everything. I am not just going to build this thing and set out on the ocean like a dumbass. I have been researching for months on end, have looked at weather patterns, wave heights, etc around the world on windy.com every day for the past few months, I have read many stories of ocean crossings, read numerous books and articles on hull design(and efficiency), am subscribed to every decent sailing youtube channel I can find, etc etc etc.



What I am here to do is have a conversation about how I can hone my design to be safe and reliable. As I said, I am not going to set out without carefully planning every aspect, and talking to as many experienced sailors as I can. Trust me, the idea of crossing an ocean terrifies me, but it is the only realistic way I am going to be able to afford to go all the places I want to go while I am still reasonably young.



Some of you have given me useful info, such as Torqeedo not being as reliable as I was led to believe, such as their concerns about their understanding of my design, and things I may not have considered. Thank you for that.



Perhaps I should have just waited til I had a more finalized design til I posted on here. I'll work on my drawings, calculations, and lists and make another post with images of them in the not too distant future.



I'll be back tomorrow to try to respond to some of the more reasonable replies that have been posted. If you are a jerk who just bought some fancy yacht designed by someone else besides yourself and think you know all about boats please move on from this thread, and anyone who insults me I will ignore, and block if that is an option on this forum. Those of you who actually care about helping me or even give your criticism in a constructive, cooperative manner, I would be very thankful for your input.


Some background on me: I have been a handyman to some degree my entire adult life(I am now 40), have built and fixed a great many things in that time, I worked in solar for a number of years, in water harvesting for more(meaning I have a reasonably good understanding of water and its properties), have been quite interested in physics since I was young and have developed a decent understanding of its basic principles. And much more. Not saying this to brag about anything, just to say that I have a number of qualities which make it likely this project will have a good outcome. This project is a few years out and I am here to learn as much as I can in the meantime from those with experience. But I'm not going to blindly accept anyone's interpretation.



That said, thanks again.

[mako]

There’s no issue cruising the world in a powerboat, but it will be heavy displacement, not light. The original Diesel Duck 38 ft cruised Cape Horn. But the cost will be an order of magnitude higher than your Wharram

[straightman21]

Simple really, short answer is no but as you have to ask the question, that suggests lack of knowledge / experience, yes.

[Firstbait]

Hi Dustman,

I hope to not offend you and if so sorry.

But how far from the sea or a large body of water do live.
Also what type and size of boats have you been on.

[Jim Cate]

Dustman, the crux of our disbelief in the program is the projected speed vs power consumption numbers that you posit. They don't agree with any reasonable models that we are familiar with.

The necessity for carriage of food, water and fuel for ICE backups to solar are the coffin nails in the argument for most of us. If you have some knowledge that supports your expectations, please pass it on. We are skeptics,but not unwilling to learn.

On another point, sails are indeed what most folks end up using for transoceanic passages, especially in smaller vessels. We who sail don't understand your fear of using them, for they work for us as they have for generations of mariners before us.

Lastly, people have crossed oceans simply drifting in unpowered rafts of various sorts. I guess that if you chose your destinations well, you could emulate them in your solar power cat, but I don't think that's what you have in mind.

So, if you have some calculations that support your ideas of speed vs power, we would like to see them. Perhaps you can convince us... or perhaps we can show you where you have gone astray. It's useful either way.

Jim

[Don C L]

Well, I am always up for a new boat design! Let’s see some drawings and calculations! Seriously. Don’t judge us all too harshly by a few nattering nabobs of negativity.....

[hellosailor]

'Would I be crazy to cross oceans"
You can stop right there, the rest doesn't matter. Yes, you have to be crazy to put yourself in harm's way for purely recreational reasons. How you're going to cross them, the size of the boat or plane, is just a matter of degrees, isn't it? Especially if you don't have the background knowledge to know what "enough boat" is for you and your experience/skill level.
But of course, it can be fun, crazy or not.

[AKA-None]

Wasn’t there a guy who’d never designed a boat before try this for a circumnavigation. Donald I believe, no not that Donald.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by dustman

This would be an ultralight(<1000#), minimalist, powered catamaran. Slender hulls with semicircular cross section and fine entry/exit, hull draft 4" to 5", 30" bridgedeck clearance, comparatively low windage with very small aerodynamic cabin, relatively low center of gravity.

Possibly a better way to start the design process would be to work out a weight budget.

Figure your longest period away from civilization, work out how much food, water, clothing, fuel etc you'd need (be generous, don't expect to be able to "live off the land").

Then you need to add permanent gear, like anchors, rode, tools, spares, bedding, cutlery crockery, pots, pans etc.

Then theres toys, dive/snorkel gear, kiteboard, drone, cameras etc.

Then you can think about the boat you'd need to carry it all.

Remember you'll need batteries, solar, genset and fuel if going electric propulsion.

[44'cruisingcat]

There's a build log for something maybe similar to what you're thinking of here:

https://diy-yachts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=979

[weavis]

I think the problem here is one of the dreams above reality.

Anything can be achieved at some point.... but the result is individual and not across the board.

The sea does not care if you are a home builder or a master boat designer...it will throw at you what it can and only EXPERIENCE or being in a vessel that is designed by an EXPERIENCED boat designer will be your saving.

I am in the medical field and have witnessed the strongest men I know defeated by seasickness and tiredness and being alone in relentless weather conditions regardless of the comfort of the vessel they sail on........ yet another factor to add in.

My experience with electric propulsion is minimal, yet research told me that electric outboards over a long distance were a non-starter, My use of solar is coupled with sails, and a generator and diesel engines, not because I like a diesel but because there are no second chances when things go wrong.

Size of the vessel is not a concern. Comfort and safety are. What a person deems wonderful on paper, can be disproved by one heavy weather passage in reality. I've sailed on many safe vessels, and on some have puked my way the entire trip because they have not been comfortable in the seaway action...

When a person is dead, they are dead. We as sailors spend a lot of time avoiding that scenario through the exchange of information, learning by other peoples mistakes and by stating absolutes as to what DOES NOT WORK. So when you take offence at comments made here, you have to realise that it is your personal ego at work.... the naysayers have DONE what you propose to do and have been there and survived. Listening to the most negative sailor on CF can be painful... yet some of the most negative are also the most experienced.

All of us wish you well. However, I urge you to reframe your attitude. LISTEN TO EVERYONE and see where the consensus lies...People do not have to agree with us, and we don't have to agree with them.... yet their experience needs to be recognised for what it is....

It might just save you.

Looking forward to seeing the fruits of your design in due course. We have some internationally acclaimed boat designers on this forum with years of experience and who are only too willing to offer suggestions........

Good luck my friend.

[Teleman]

Lots of good advice here.

44C's idea of starting with an honest weight budget and working from that is probably the best of the many.

Whether the tone is kind or harsh, we have all been saying much the same thing, based on experience and lifetimes of study. Nobody wants to see a man waste lots of time and money on a flawed concept. Nobody wants to see that man fail or die.

I would strongly suggest trying to get some time on a sailing catamaran. You will have a clearer idea of what sail power involves. To go ocean crossing on a 10 metre boat (with at least 5 metre beam!) it is the only realistic propulsion option.

Learning about sailing is actually very interesting. Physics, aerodynamics, and seat-of-the-pants feel.

Don't let the technical rants of experienced sailors put you off. Many people have done long relaxed voyages with very simple and inexpensive sail rigs.

[sailingchiro]

You could gain some great insight from watching the movie, Kon Tiki. Some guys built a raft and crossed the Pacific.

Another reference is: Stephan Callahan's book Adrift. I learned so much regarding Ocean crossing and how to stay alive at sea.
The Donald you are thinking of is Crowhurst on a trimaran but later committed suicide.

You may not want a sail but please put up a mast and have a sail on board just as a back up plan. Crossing the Pacific from E to W has very favorable winds and current. Might as well have sails in case your perpetual motion machine fails.
Redundancy is very important. Several autopilots, spare parts for everything. My genset has the roughly the same engine as my propulsion engines for back up. I can see waves making the lightweight cat twisting alot and structural integrity will need repair during the trip. The Wharrams use cordage to keep the hulls together which can be repaired at sea. The Wharrams are probably a great place to start and modify as needed. A 30' mast with a big head sail would be cheap and light. Also if you needed to lift anything, it would be very helpful.
Most of us sailors go to a winch, mast, or boom if we need to put any leverage on something. I can't tell you how much lifting has been done on our boat from mast.
I can definitely see have solar, twin straight shaft propellors with electric motors, and wind generator. Producing at least 3 times needed. The whole deck would be flexible solar panels but each on a seperate controller to LIPo4. The electric motors will be replaceable from inside the boat. Running one motor at a time and alternating for service. This would be to get you through the doldrums. You would definitely want to maintain steerage which requires movement (3-4knots) or you could get abeam to the waves, not good!!!! No refrigeration. 12 foot waves are not that big when following with a long interval. They are extremely large when short duration and on the nose. Your boat will need the ability to surf but have good bouyancy in the bow to keep it from pitchpoling at the bottom of the wave. Bucket for a head. 3 sources of water generation. It gets very dark out on the ocean, some source of light to keep yourself from going crazy. Fishing for protein. Enough food to last over 100 days. Take the boat across a large bay for tests in all kinds of weather especially at night. The mental aspect is going to be very taxing. Weather not seen at night is very humbling. Especially the squalls that blow through. Sleep deprivation? When does one lose his mind without sleep? I don't know but I can last no more than 3 days before losing my mind even more. On long passages, I sleep in the cockpit lashed to the helm seat post even during other crews shifts. Sleeping in 15 minute increments is not for everyone.

[1Sunseeker]

I think you would be crazy to go anywhere in that. Stay home and write a book about the trip instead.

[sailjumanji]

This guy just crossed the Pacific on a Seawind 1000 catamaran - 33 ft long and 19 ft wide - in the single-handed Shaka Challenge from California to Hawaii. https://seawindcats.com/community/la...aka-challenge/

Finished ahead - elapsed time and corrected time - of the fleet, including faster-rated Beneteau Oceanis and the J-33. https://www.jibeset.net/show.php?RR=...OC=r1&TYP=html