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06-11-2019, 02:13
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Denmark
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 275
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by rom
@Django: 6.4bpsd@6.1TWS ... congrats your L380 is faster than an outremer 5X. And I am sure it was even faster 1 second before the picture was taken !
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LOL, TWS is in SI (System International) units, 6.1 m/s is 12 knots! The AP is steering a 10 tons boat, so speed is very constant
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06-11-2019, 02:15
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Aussie East Coast
Boat: Looking now. Proud AP sailer
Posts: 47
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Yawn....
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06-11-2019, 03:41
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NZL - Currently Run Aground Ashore..
Boat: Sail & Power for over 35 years, experience cruising the Eastern Caribbean, Western Med, and more
Posts: 2,129
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by django37
LOL, TWS is in SI (System International) units, 6.1 m/s is 12 knots! The AP is steering a 10 tons boat, so speed is very constant
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Why not just use knots? As a metric based person who can also speak and think in imperial I'm all for using SI in general, and I think that it's ridiculous that the USA remains in the dark ages in this respect.
But I don't use m/s at sea, or even on my land based weather forecasts since I'm still a sailor.
This bad habit has been brought to sea by landlubbers.
At sea the standard is Knots and Nautical Miles.
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06-11-2019, 04:53
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#49
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by django37
LOL, TWS is in SI (System International) units, 6.1 m/s is 12 knots! The AP is steering a 10 tons boat, so speed is very constant
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Why on earth would you have two speed displays on the same screen showing different units?
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06-11-2019, 06:14
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#50
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
Why on earth would you have two speed displays on the same screen showing different units?
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Because you can? Or maybe it’s the default programming?
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06-11-2019, 06:44
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: San Diego
Boat: Jeanneau 349, FP 47, Sense 50, J 42ds
Posts: 752
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Agree with most all. Most cruising cats CAN sail 55 degrees true. Polars are either based on measured data, or calculated. Your sailing experience may vary, but it is the best empirical data I know of. The polar for the Lagoon 42 says it sails rather nicely. If you believe the Lagoon 42 polar, however, which looks like most polars, while you will be going faster at 60 degrees true your VMG is less than if you go 55 degrees (sea state can make this statement wrong). That is also true of my Saona 47. I got the polar for the Lagoon from RubyRose. They say it was provided by Lagoon when they did their review of the Lagoon 42. If you watch their review of the 42 they show it there. For my Catalina, Jeanneau and Beneteau I had to ask the dealers for the polars as they weren't provided, but they all had them so I assume Lagoon has them (FP puts them in their brochure which is nice). Don't understand the comment "you point AWA" implying you are not also pointing TWA. To get a tacking angle, or VMG for that matter, you convert AWA to TWA is all. My simple point is cruising cats do OK to weather. Most would agree it is not their strong suit. Every boat is a compromise.
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06-11-2019, 07:17
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NZL - Currently Run Aground Ashore..
Boat: Sail & Power for over 35 years, experience cruising the Eastern Caribbean, Western Med, and more
Posts: 2,129
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
There is a good thread here that discusses this issue, with many different catamarans posting their numbers.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ad-222453.html
Summarising that thread, it seems that most cruising catamarans, regardless of variances in their design, and whether they have boards or mini keels, mostly all seem to tack through 100-120deg, sea state dependant.
It was really quite surprising how little difference there in fact was between various designs.
Some boats went a little faster than others of course, but for this LWL and other factors need to be more fully considered too.
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06-11-2019, 08:04
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New England/FL
Boat: Hanse 348
Posts: 1,067
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh2002
Summarising that thread, it seems that most cruising catamarans, regardless of variances in their design, and whether they have boards or mini keels, mostly all seem to tack through 100-120deg, sea state dependant.
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Pretty accurate statement for Lagoon, FP, and those type of boats. My AP is set to tack through 100 deg, works very well.
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06-11-2019, 09:27
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Does anyone sail with telltales on their sail and shrouds. It sounds like forward motion depends on the amount of instrumentation. :-)
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06-11-2019, 10:57
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Denmark
Boat: Lagoon 380
Posts: 275
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
Why on earth would you have two speed displays on the same screen showing different units?
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In the SI system knots are allowed as speed for ships and airplanes. All weather reports here gives windspeed in m/s, so we are used to use that for windspeed.
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06-11-2019, 11:16
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 266
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
Does anyone sail with telltales on their sail and shrouds. )
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Certainly! Woolies on the leech, and vhs tape telltales on the shrouds!
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06-11-2019, 11:18
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 736
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zzmeyer
Agree with most all. Most cruising cats CAN sail 55 degrees true. Polars are either based on measured data, or calculated. Your sailing experience may vary, but it is the best empirical data I know of. The polar for the Lagoon 42 says it sails rather nicely. If you believe the Lagoon 42 polar, however, which looks like most polars, while you will be going faster at 60 degrees true your VMG is less than if you go 55 degrees (sea state can make this statement wrong). That is also true of my Saona 47. I got the polar for the Lagoon from RubyRose. They say it was provided by Lagoon when they did their review of the Lagoon 42. If you watch their review of the 42 they show it there. For my Catalina, Jeanneau and Beneteau I had to ask the dealers for the polars as they weren't provided, but they all had them so I assume Lagoon has them (FP puts them in their brochure which is nice). Don't understand the comment "you point AWA" implying you are not also pointing TWA. To get a tacking angle, or VMG for that matter, you convert AWA to TWA is all. My simple point is cruising cats do OK to weather. Most would agree it is not their strong suit. Every boat is a compromise.
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Ok I see, the guys who made a video "outremer 5X vs. Antares 44". Well well, the polar could be genuine though, who knows... As to "pointing", TWA is meaningless, as soon as your boat is moving what counts is AWA. A fast boat may show excellent pointing abilities (say 25AWA) at a "poor" TWA.
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06-11-2019, 12:33
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: San Diego
Boat: Jeanneau 349, FP 47, Sense 50, J 42ds
Posts: 752
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Don't agree. AWA alone won't tell you how well you are going to weather. You can have significantly different speed to weather (VMG) at the same AWA. For example, if you are sailing at 6 knots with AWA of 35 degrees and the true wind is 15 knots your TWA is 48.3 degrees and your VMG is 3.99. Same example with 35 degree AWA with wind at 10 knots your TWA is 55.1 degrees and your VMG is 3.43. The AWA stayed the same, but the VMG, which measures your speed where you want to go is significantly different. The reason you are slower to weather is the TWA.
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06-11-2019, 12:39
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 3,755
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by rom
Ok I see, the guys who made a video "outremer 5X vs. Antares 44". Well well, the polar could be genuine though, who knows... As to "pointing", TWA is meaningless, as soon as your boat is moving what counts is AWA. A fast boat may show excellent pointing abilities (say 25AWA) at a "poor" TWA.
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the easiest way is either to look at the TWA or measure the angle between Port and starboard tack and divide it by 2. You can do it graphically on the Plotter when recording your track too.
This angle is the angle you sail to windward .
Most Chartplotter provide VMG directly on the display .
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06-11-2019, 13:04
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Who Said Lagoons can't sail.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxfish
Certainly! Woolies on the leech, and vhs tape telltales on the shrouds!
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I'm glad to hear someone knows what I was speaking of. I always thought of sailing as an art form for pleasure not a mathematical formula.
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