Which Cat to Buy?

[Red Herring]

This Seawind 1200 just popped up on Yachtworld today, I had noticed it pop up on Yachthub a few days ago (I check daily... everyone needs a hobby ). It's in Sidney, and falls into your budget at $295Au. It would be a good option to consider. My only gripe is the lack of a table in the cockpit. Otherwise, great boat!

Frankly, I would also check out this one. Unconventional, but well laid out, and I'll bet it sails very well. Price is certainly right as asking is $216 Au, and it would leave lots of $ for other stuff. https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...-yachts/209005 44 feet? A king size day bed in the salon? Dagger boards? Rotating mast? What's not to love!

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

This Seawind 1200 just popped up on Yachtworld today, I had noticed it pop up on Yachthub a few days ago (I check daily... everyone needs a hobby ). It's in Sidney, and falls into your budget at $295Au. It would be a good option to consider. My only gripe is the lack of a table in the cockpit. Otherwise, great boat!

Frankly, I would also check out this one. Unconventional, but well laid out, and I'll bet it sails very well. Price is certainly right as asking is $216 Au, and it would leave lots of $ for other stuff. https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...-yachts/209005 44 feet? A king size day bed in the salon? Dagger boards? Rotating mast? What's not to love!

The Seawind is just too small

Love the Boat Name of the other one though

FYI My Budget was quoted in US$, so a bit more room to play

[cyan]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

As to the dismissal of galley down - I would urge reconsideration.

Friends just changed from one cat to another and are not happy with the loss of galley space they have with the galley up. They have lost about 3 square metres of galley counter with the galley up. She was not happy at all and liked their old boat better. Now their French cat has a piece of wood to cover the sink so they can have some more galley space. It is that tight.

I am happy with the long, deep and voluminous galley down on our cat. It also moves less in a seaway than the galley up. So it may be fashionable, like slopey windows on the Privilege, but a galley down can make a lot of sense unless you get over 40ft or so. It can be great to leave the washing up and not see it from the cabin.

Originally Posted by 200MPH

...Also, galley down is good. Wife and I thought galley up was better before, but galley down uses the one hull space much more efficiently, and frees up the saloon. Without trying a galley up, for now we think galley down gives a massive and useable galley efficiently. And with a Seawind, all the side window makes it very open down there.

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

I tried to convince my wife for older 50 ft but no sympathy there. Kitchen with 360 view is a must.

This galley-up vs galley-down debate sounds like enough for another thread! (probably was? couldn't find it)
I do understand the better seaway functionality and the normally larger space for the galley-down. However, most of our galley use will be at anchor, even after including many passages in the plan. (slowwwly exploring the world)

If you take a look at recent house designs in the States, there is almost ALWAYS a nod to the "open floorplan" in which the kitchen is open to the living/family room. This seems to reflect contemporary social norms of entertaining and simple family life. The kitchen has become a place to gather especially while meals are prepared. My house from the 1940's, with the isolated kitchen, probably suited the pre-women's-liberation housewife, but is in serious need of remodeling to fit the way my family all shares in the cooking and congregates in the kitchen. (while still trying to watch the game- [eventually sunset])

The thought of someone being stuck down below to prep meals on a catamaran is quite the deal-breaker for us. Bareboating has affirmed for our group that the sun-downers, the jokes, the laughter, the songs, the sunset, the FUN must all be shared on the same level as the chef of the evening. The Admiral reminds me of this, but I can't honestly disagree. She will gladly accept a less-stable little space with a prep counter the size of a cutting board in exchange for being up-stairs with the rest of the group. (and she is a pro chef, go figure)

I guess we all have our priorities?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

OK, that's a good start. Is it $300Au or USD? Makes a big difference.

A few more questions if you don't mind, and please forgive me if you have covered this already. These are just my thoughts, having researched the market for many years now. We are in a similar position to you, and sincerely wish you all the best moving forward!!

It all revolves around budget. Remember to keep a healthy contingency.

1. Are you planning to keep the boat in Au? If so, have you made allowances for the very expensive importation process? If you are planning on using Au as a home base, you will likely be better off buying an already imported vessel, which can often affect purchase price domestically. If you are planning, to cruise, and not have the boat returned to Au, your options for purchase are better.

2. $300K as a base price will limit the size and condition of the boat you wish to purchase, especially if your budget is in Au dollars. If you want a 43-48 foot production cat you will have to look older than 10 years. Especially if you want one that is in "good to go" condition. They usually all need some form of work before they are "good to go". and it would be wise to set aside another $50K for misc. stuff that needs doing. That's a reasonably generous, but not unrealistic budget.

3. Don't limit yourself to production boats. Au makes some great boats. Grainger, Perry, Lightwave, Seawind... etc... Also, in you budget, you might have to look smaller, more in the 40 foot range to find what you are looking for. A lot of the boats mentioned, like Lagoon 440 and Leopard 46 are simply not doable on your budget. Great thoughts, but if your budget is firm at $300 ready to go, you will be hard pressed to find one that will fall into your range. Even the Leopard 42, 43, 45 47 are likely just out of reach. There are owner version Lagoon 410's which would fit your budget. Smaller than what you want, but I think you will find it hard to source a larger vessel in your price range. Not impossible, just unlikely.

4. Remember that 4 cabin models will be harder to resell no matter which model you chose. They are initially less expensive, and might work for you, but keep in mind that you might have to sit on it to sell, or lower the price when the time comes to resell.

5. Don't be afraid of older boats. Often they are better built than the newer ones, and can represent a significantly better value.

Off to soccer with my daughter

Good luck!! Steve

Budget is 300K USD

1) I am looking in Europe and the Caribbean for the boat and will stay over that side of the world for a few years. Even if I do come back this way, I will probably not be able to bring it into Australia without paying duty - Even though I am a dual citizen, they do not count living on a boat outside of the country for a couple of years as not being a resident of Australia - You have to provide an overseas lease, payslips, utility bills etc to prove you are not a resident - So no temporary import for me - So all the money I would have spent within Australia for my 12 months on the temp import Australian businesses will not get, as I will not pay Duty and GST (15%) to come into Australia for a year or so.

2) As its in USD I think its Doable - Seen a Few Cruising Specked Bahias below that and after bringing up to speed will not be to far north of that - I do have extra $$ to replace some bigger ticket items if they need replacing - Can do it on purchase or when they die. Quite a few others in that price range as well. What I have noticed by keeping an eye on things over the last 12 to 18 months, is that a lot of boats are over priced and just sit there - The ones that come in at realistic pricing don't last long - As an example there was a fully refitted Belize Fully re-furbed for all big ticket items which was listed at around $265k (USD) from memory - It didn't last long before it sold. So the pricing that is advertised and what a lot of these boats sell for are two very different things.

3) I am open to ALL Boats, especially from the smaller manufacturers as I get the feeling that they have a better build quality than today's mass produced boats - Could be wrong though?

4) To be honest I am torn between 3 & 4 Cabins - Nice to have that extra cabin for family and friends - Which I'm sure will all come out of the woodwork when we get a boat.

5) I think you are definitely right about older boats being better built and are certainly better value - I have been looking at boats from 1997 on-wards.

[Red Herring]

$300 US is definitely better! Amazing similarity between what you are planning, and what we have in mind. Were Canadian, and I don't plan on bringing the boat back either. Just can't stomach the thought of paying all that duty and tax (~20% depending) on an expensive boat. When we return from cruising we will buy something smaller and local to cruise our home waters. Probably a Legacy or Gemini.

Anyways...

Ya, the FP Bahia would be a great choice, if you don't mind the rounded furnishings. Drives my wife crazy, and I don't like it from a use of space perspective, but they are supposed to sail really well for their class, and would certainly meet your criteria. Doubt you will find an owners version, but you should be able to find a 4 cabin. Some of the other FP models would probably fit the bill as well. The Belize is well regarded, as is it's replacement Lipari. Watch for osmosis on the FP boats. I suppose even the Lagoon 440 is doable for $300US, and it's voluminous, and sails really well.

The hunt is half the fun! I will watch with interest

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

$300 US is definitely better! Amazing similarity between what you are planning, and what we have in mind. Were Canadian, and I don't plan on bringing the boat back either. Just can't stomach the thought of paying all that duty and tax (~20% depending) on an expensive boat. When we return from cruising we will buy something smaller and local to cruise our home waters. Probably a Legacy or Gemini.

Anyways...

Ya, the FP Bahia would be a great choice, if you don't mind the rounded furnishings. Drives my wife crazy, and I don't like it from a use of space perspective, but they are supposed to sail really well for their class, and would certainly meet your criteria. Doubt you will find an owners version, but you should be able to find a 4 cabin. Some of the other FP models would probably fit the bill as well. The Belize is well regarded, as is it's replacement Lipari. Watch for osmosis on the FP boats. I suppose even the Lagoon 440 is doable for $300US, and it's voluminous, and sails really well.

The hunt is half the fun! I will watch with interest

It's my understanding that the rounded corners on the furnishings is safer in a seaway. Whether that's applicable on a cat is up for you to decide to tell the Admiral or not..........

[cyan]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

It's my understanding that the rounded corners on the furnishings is safer in a seaway. Whether that's applicable on a cat is up for you to decide to tell the Admiral or not..........

How many of us have spent lots of time racing monohulls before lazily cruising in a cat? My grinder role whilst racing guaranteed weekly bruises from a cockpit with oddly angry sharp corners. Well, okay, not really SHARP, but when your shin slams a tight radius edge, angry is a good word.

Fountain Pajot seems like a company of extremes. The older boats like the FP Bahia are filled with safe-spaces with the most rounded, graceful, funky curves of any boat on a production line. Large-radius triangles might not make the best use of space, but I have little fear of injury there, in the unlikely event of a (rough) water landing. The NEWER FP cats?? Holy stab wounds, Batman, the corners on a new FP Helia scare me!

I would not like to sea rough seas inside of the torture box in the attached pic. (The un-pictured metal spikes pointing up on all the corners must be a factory option)

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

It's my understanding that the rounded corners on the furnishings is safer in a seaway. Whether that's applicable on a cat is up for you to decide to tell the Admiral or not..........

No no. Rounded edges aren't the issue... rounded furnishings like the settee in the salon and cockpit. Rounded corners makes good sense, rounded furnishings, not so much. Hard to stretch out on, and it's easier to divide up square areas for storage.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by UFO

Budget is 300K USD

1) I am looking in Europe and the Caribbean for the boat ...

Hi there,

I saw some offers for ex-charter Lagoon 420 in Greece and Croatia for 190k€ (needs some love on one of the engines) ... 230k€ (a lot re-fittet by the owner, complete with el. heads, generator, AC...). This are spacious 4 cabins you could consider...

There are also some Cats in the Med outside of Europe (Turkey, Israel) that are there for a long time - so I guess the asking price can be negotiates. Just check Yachtworld...

[Tornadosailing]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

No no. Rounded edges aren't the issue... rounded furnishings like the settee in the salon and cockpit. Rounded corners makes good sense, rounded furnishings, not so much. Hard to stretch out on, and it's easier to divide up square areas for storage.

We were originally signed up for a Helia, and we loved the number of cabinets. We didn't love the sharp corners, not only from the standpoint of getting stabbed in a seaway, but because it looked too "Ikea" for our taste.

The Salina offered rounded corners without the round settee and round galley. The number of cabinets was greatly reduced compared to the Helia and we were initially concerned. The reduced number of cabinets was going to force us to make a few decisions as far as how much "stuff" we could have - or so we thought. We found that the Salina cabinets are much deeper. As in, it's hard to reach the back of some cabinets. So now we just decide what items are front of cabinet and which items go in the back.

There are still a few storage problems that I'm going to address. One is the complete lack of medicine cabinets in the heads. There's virtually no place to put much of anything. That's an easy fix. The other big improvement the later FP's have made is on deck storage. I will be making a seat similar to the new Helia/Saba bench seat next to the cockpit table. It will be additional built in seating and storage instead of deck chairs that it currently has, although the Helia/Saba storage goes below deck level and I can't do that.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by Rigger Bruce

A manta which is another that should be on the cannels of europe if they fit. not out in Blue water ocean sailing.

And yet I know of more Mantas that have circumnavigated then any other cat.
Wow,,,

[scargo]

Originally Posted by TonyBe

Interestingly, given the above comments, I've recently come across a Youtube channel of a British couple who have recently bought a new Lagoon 450s.

It was really interesting to see their first few weeks with it (they're quite a chatty and engaging couple). It seems that they had a lot of problems with minor issues with the boat and even lost the forestay at one point in the first two weeks due to a stripped bolt.

No They never lost the forestay. It's only the furler that broke. The forestay is inside the furler.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by scargo

No They never lost the forestay. It's only the furler that broke. The forestay is inside the furler.

Oh - well thats all good then.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Rigger Bruce

I would like to always see a "Lower Back shrould under the cap t help insure you might have a fighting chance to get things down and save the mast. But in saying that, I saw one cat leave here and they lost the leeward cap and didn't stop to think to get a spiniker haulyard over there as they immediately dropped their main and the mast before that had pressure to hold the mast due to the sail being full. But once that main dropped the mast fell over to windward. Aagin a cat with no lower stay to help stop that. A manta which is another that should be on the cannels of europe if they fit. not out in Blue water ocean sailing.

Curious what are your specific issues w the Mantas?

[Boat_guy]

Invincible Boats just came out with a 40' Catamaran and it's arguably the most advanced fishing catamaran currently on the market. It was designed to operate in less than optimal running conditions and literally tears through the open seas. Check it out:

https://invincibleboats.com/40-catamaran/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-6-...ature=youtu.be