Which Cat to Buy?

[Robinski]

Originally Posted by myocean

You may want to consider that having dagger boards can be a great advatage (-> Catana)
We have been cruising with Kids for nearly three years with an Outremer (probably too expensive for you?) and as soon as we needed to sail up-wind, all the Lagoons and Fountaine Pajots performed quite badly in comparison...
Regarding Lagoon many people say "Lagoons are made to stay in the Lagoon."

The first boat we looked at was a catana 44. Great boat but very tight hulls due to the dagger boards as well as tight saloon. I know what you mean regarding the lagoons. But for most of our journeys we will be staying in the lagoon so to speak probably 2 years in the med then crossing carabiean, america, Panama then across the Pacific and so on. Yes some big jumps but mostly coastal inbetween. Any thoughts on the Bahia?

[Tornadosailing]

Originally Posted by myocean

You may want to consider that having dagger boards can be a great advatage (-> Catana)
We have been cruising with Kids for nearly three years with an Outremer (probably too expensive for you?) and as soon as we needed to sail up-wind, all the Lagoons and Fountaine Pajots performed quite badly in comparison...
Regarding Lagoon many people say "Lagoons are made to stay in the Lagoon."

Outremer is a great boat, and you're right about the pointing ability of the stub keel cats. I took a ride on an Outremer 51 and it was a great boat. Toured the factory too. Then I bought an FP. The speed and pointing of the Outremer came with too many trade offs in cabin/soon space and weight carrying ability.

[rallyman1122]

Originally Posted by UFO

Am I correct in that all 440 Lagoons are Flybridge? Great for Motor Boats, but I highly doubt its so sensible for ocean going Cats - Raising the boom and sticking all that weight up higher, just seems like a recipe for disaster if you get yourself into the wrong conditions!

These folks may disagree with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHgI...5CvTos2-EJ16F1

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by UFO

Are there Cats I should be totally discounting and on the flip side ones I should be paying more attention too?

Yes ,there are some manufacturers that have known structural issues. I've seen these myself in the yard. I don't want to list that information publicly as it doesn't help current owners with resale value, so send me a PM.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by UFO

Are there Cats I should be totally discounting and on the flip side ones I should be paying more attention too?

PS: Everyone naturally thinks their boat is the best! When we were in the market, we made a spreadsheet to compare them all. Then we test sailed the short list. Some of the things we thought were important when we went cat hunting:
1. Bridgedeck clearance. If it doesn't have good clearance, you will get slamming. We are only 41' but don't get slamming like other cats due to our high clearance. It sure makes for nice passages. It's easy way to tell if the boat has enough clearance - can you drive the dinghy underneath it?
2. Construction: how many parts is the hull made in? Our is just two pieces- the bottom and the top, with a 6" overlap all the way around. We have no joints in the hulls, no joints between the bridgedeck and the hulls. In heavy sailing, lesser cats literally come apart at the seams.
3. Visibility- can you see all 4 corners from the helm? (without adding a flybridge)
4. The more net, the better. Small nets up front mean it's a heavy ponderous boat that will crash into the waves and never reach speeds beyond that of a monohull.
5. Can it tack like a monohull (no backwinding the jib to pull the bow around)? If it can't, it probably doesn't sail well to windward either, which means lots of motoring- yuck!
6. Are hulls solid foam & glass or some other composite materials so they are stiff? Or are their air voids between two skins? (some cats have hulls that flex, one hull going up while the other goes down in big seas- scary!) If the dining table moves up & down underway, don't buy the boat!
7. Don't be distracted by window dressing- Corian countertops, leather cushions, stainless steel galleys - that's all lipstick on a pig. When your safety is at stake you want big chainplates, strong construction. Not necessarily heavy construction, since that's slow. Speed is a safety factor- faster lighter cats can sail away from bad weather.

I suggest you visit a yard in New Zealand. Spend a week talking to the guys that operate the lift and ask them which cats they worry about lifting and which ones they don't. Take note of the ones that lost their masts, and the ones that are getting major reconstructive surgery. Also, owners who might not want to post anything negative about their brand on-line might be more willing to talk about issues in person.


Best of luck in your search,

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by rallyman1122

These folks may disagree with you.

Brent LOVES his 440. He says it sails really well. His previous vessel was a Catana 471. He knows of what he speaks. He also really likes the fly bridge, and says the raised boom is a non issue with steps on the mast and topping lift lowering. Personally, I still like a lower boom.

[Bean Counter]

For the spread sheet guy
https://www.sailmagazine.com/multihu...ying-catamaran

[Heath68]

If you're looking for a 10yr old cat I'd take a look at a Fontaine Pajot Salina.. a 48ft cat with a fairly robust heritage.

[TabbyCat]

Whichever cat your buy, as others have already advised, be sure to try it first. Perhaps rather than chartering in a nice safe calm destination you might try crewing for another owner. Charter boats are stripped down and will perform better than the same vessel fully loaded for live-aboard use. A delivery trip would give you a taste of what living aboard is really like, and you might be able to do an open water passage, say from Tonga to NZ , US to Caribbean, or Trans-Atlantic. Plus going as crew will be less expensive than doing a charter. There are quite a few sites with owners looking for extra crew for those passages: www.7knots.com , www.floatplan.com and others.

[Bean Counter]

10 Year old cat - no fly bridge - check out the Leopard 46, nice bridge deck clearance (best of all the older Leopards I think), good access to transoms, big cockpit, pretty nice boat overall, 4 cabin charter version will be quite a bit cheaper than 3 cabin, depends on your budget and your ability to fix things.

[cyan]

Great topic!
I see the old debate here of charter/coastal catamarans vs bluewater catamarans. Which is which? Lagoons received some shade in this thread regarding offshore suitability, but I also notice the little 380s that circle the globe. How are we buyers to sort opinions and facts?

Statistics seem helpful to me here. The fine folks at the online magazine Latitude38.com do a great job registering boats for the Pacific Puddle Jump every year. Those of us on the West Coast of the U.S. who daydream of this downwind passage to French Polynesia really appreciate the organizing, stories, and photos.
Latitude 38 - The West's Leading Sailing and Marine Magazine

The nagging question:
Exactly WHICH catamaran brands crossed thousands of miles of open ocean from the Americas to French Polynesia in, say, the last 3 seasons? While not quite science, I borrowed their numbers, extracting only the catamarans, then summed it up in a chart. My apologies in advance for the data appropriation, but this seems like a very interesting perspective for those of us here who are shopping/dreaming...

[Bean Counter]

Interesting Cyan, sort of reflects the market - some more unscientific data - total sailing catamarans advertised on Yacht World by Brand
Lagoon 371
FP 236
Leopard 86
Privilege 58
Catana 51
Outremer 26
Prout 23
Crowther 10

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

10 Year old cat - no fly bridge - check out the Leopard 46, nice bridge deck clearance (best of all the older Leopards I think), good access to transoms, big cockpit, pretty nice boat overall, 4 cabin charter version will be quite a bit cheaper than 3 cabin, depends on your budget and your ability to fix things.

Yes I have also heard good things about the 46. Not too many around though in the second hand market, with the exception of those coming directly out of Charter

[UFO]

Originally Posted by cyan

Great topic!
I see the old debate here of charter/coastal catamarans vs bluewater catamarans. Which is which? Lagoons received some shade in this thread regarding offshore suitability, but I also notice the little 380s that circle the globe. How are we buyers to sort opinions and facts?

Statistics seem helpful to me here. The fine folks at the online magazine Latitude38.com do a great job registering boats for the Pacific Puddle Jump every year. Those of us on the West Coast of the U.S. who daydream of this downwind passage to French Polynesia really appreciate the organizing, stories, and photos.
Latitude 38 - The West's Leading Sailing and Marine Magazine

The nagging question:
Exactly WHICH catamaran brands crossed thousands of miles of open ocean from the Americas to French Polynesia in, say, the last 3 seasons? While not quite science, I borrowed their numbers, extracting only the catamarans, then summed it up in a chart. My apologies in advance for the data appropriation, but this seems like a very interesting perspective for those of us here who are shopping/dreaming...

I think as Bean Counter says (backed up by his yacht world stats) that it is just reflective of the market, rather than a reflection of the Blue Water suitability.

[belizesailor]

Personally, I think the whole "bluewater" mythos is way overdone whether mono or cat. Lots of folks here on CF searching for "bluewater" boats for typical Caribbean cruising...which most any boat can do.

For example, dising Lagoons for this use...just look at the numbers. They have probably done more crossings than any other production cat on the planet just out of sheer numbers. And how many have been lost due to some inherient design deficiencey (not operator error, etc) pretty close to zero would be my guesstimate.