where to register boat if going to use offshore?

[smj]

Originally Posted by serpa4

In a couple years, I plan to spend up to 350k. I have a small condo I own in Colorado and utilities I pay there. I'm not a resident right now, but could be one quickly. Their excise/use tax is 2.9%, so wouldn't be too much money. I hope it works this way, but need to research more.


What if you bought land in Montana and established a residency there? I had land for only $1500 bucks and became a resident with a PO box. No sales tax at all. This was done with an RV and cars, but was military at that time. Now I'm retired in New Mexico and will keep the boat in Texas for 6-8 months till refitted and then sailing off along the coconut milk run.

Legally you will have to register your boat and pay 6.25% in taxes or show proof of taxes paid within 20 days of bringing the boat to Texas or pay fines and penalties. I know from experience they are serious about the fines and penalties.

[snoozy814]

we did end up registering it in FL as that's where we are going to make our boating "base camp" although we did apply to keep it federally documented. was way cheaper to register down here than in NY due to the sales tax issues.

[john61ct]

Buy land that you want, in whatever state you like.

Not needed to establish residency, separate issue

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by serpa4

In a couple years, I plan to spend up to 350k. I have a small condo I own in Colorado and utilities I pay there. I'm not a resident right now, but could be one quickly. Their excise/use tax is 2.9%, so wouldn't be too much money. I hope it works this way, but need to research more.


What if you bought land in Montana and established a residency there? I had land for only $1500 bucks and became a resident with a PO box. No sales tax at all. This was done with an RV and cars, but was military at that time. Now I'm retired in New Mexico and will keep the boat in Texas for 6-8 months till refitted and then sailing off along the coconut milk run.

FYI. Texas Parks and Wildlife regarding boat titling, registration and taxation.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/faq/fishboat/..._titles/#faq13

Out-of-State Registration
Can I use my boat in Texas if it is registered in another state?

If you have a boat registered or titled in your name in another state you may operate the vessel up to 90 consecutive days with current out-of-state registration.

How do I register my boat in Texas if it is already registered and/or titled in another state?

If you currently have your boat registered and/or titled in your name in another state you can transfer the registration/title to Texas. You must transfer your registration and title within 90 days.

I bought a boat and/or outboard motor that's registered and/or titled in another state. How do I transfer ownership and get Texas boat registration/title and/or Texas outboard motor title?

The seller must:

Complete the tax affidavit portion of the Vessel Application form PWD 143 media download(PDF 259.1 KB) and/or Outboard Motor Application form PWD 144 media download(PDF 172.5 KB), sign and date each form; and
Out-of-state title (if title state) or out-of state registration card (if registration only state) must be properly assigned by the seller (seller must sign, date, and show the name of the purchaser).
The purchaser must:

Complete the rest of the application in the new owner's name, sign and date;
Submit verification of the serial numbers by completing form PWD 504 media download(PDF 241.8 KB) (pencil tracing of the boat hull/identification AND/OR motor identification/serial number); and
Submit application(s), assigned registration/title(s), supporting documents, required fees and tax within 20 working days to Texas Parks & Wildlife Headquarters in Austin, a Texas Parks & Wildlife Law Enforcement field office or a participating County Tax Assessor-Collector office.
Applications for transfer of title and ownership must be filed not later than 20 working days from date of purchase, or tax penalties and interest will be applied.


Titles, Registration and Tax
Titling Requirements
Parks and Wildlife Code states:

"Sec. 31.045. OWNERSHIP OF VESSELS AND OUTBOARD MOTORS; CERTIFICATES OF TITLE.

a. The ownership of a vessel or of an outboard motor is evidenced by a certificate of title issued by the department, unless the vessel or the outboard motor is new.
b. The ownership of a new vessel or a new outboard motor is evidenced by a manufacturer's or an importer's certificate executed on a form prescribed by the department.
c. Separate certificates of title are required for vessels and for outboard motors.”

Effective January 1, 1994, all motorboats and all outboard motors must be titled. Also sailboats 14 feet and over in length must be titled.

All motorized boats, regardless of length;
All sailboats 14 feet in length or longer or any sailboat with an auxiliary engine(s); and
All internal combustion (gasoline/diesel/propane powered) outboard motors must be titled.
Boat trailers are handled through your local County Tax office.
New Requirements - September 12, 2016
Code of Federal Regulations, Title 33 Navigation & Navigable Waters, Section 174 will require the collection and recording of:
A VALID DRIVERS LICENSE NUMBER and DATE OF BIRTH for individuals
OR
FEDERAL EMPLOYER IDENTIFICATION NUMBER (EIN) for companies/businesses/trusts/estates/other entities
(NOT Texas State Comptroller tax identification number)
to process the following transactions:

ALL Boat Registration Renewals
ALL Title Ownership Transfers for Boat or Motor
ALL Titling/Registration of Boat or Motor (not previously on TPWD record)
Purchasing Used Vessels/Outboard Motors: DO NOT purchase a used vessel/boat or outboard motor without receiving a title signed on the front and back along with a bill of sale from the person(s) listed on the title or from their legally documented representative. If a legal representative signs the title for the recorded owner(s), you must obtain a copy of the documentation authorizing them to act on behalf of the owner(s). Texas Parks and Wildlife is not authorized to register/title boat trailers, those are handled by the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles through your local County Tax offices.
Exempted Vessels:

USCG Documented vessels are exempt from titling with the State.
Non-motorized canoes, kayaks, punts, rowboats, or rubber rafts (regardless of length) when paddled, poled, or oared and sailboats under 14 feet in length when windblown. Adding an outboard or trolling motor to one of these types requires titling and registration.
A non-motorized vessel may have previously been titled as a motorboat. You can check whether a title has been issued for free - Query Ownership
Registration Requirements
The following vessels/boats when on Texas public water are required to have current registration, including when docked, moored, or stored:

All motorized boats, regardless of length;
All sailboats 14 feet in length or longer or any sailboat with an auxiliary engine(s); and
USCG Documented vessels.
Registration is valid for a two-year period.

Exempted vessels:

Non-motorized canoes, kayaks, punts, rowboats, or rubber rafts (regardless of length) when paddled, poled, or oared and sailboats under 14 feet in length when windblown. Adding an outboard or trolling motor to one of these types requires titling and registration.
An exempt vessel may have previously been titled as a motorboat. You can check whether a title has been issued for free - Query Ownership
Registration of USCG Documented Vessels
Effective January 1, 2004, vessels documented by the U.S. Coast Guard are required to have state registration.

USCG Documented Exempted Vessels:

Commercial tugboats;
Vessels exceeding 115 feet in length; and
Pilot or crew boats transporting freight, supplies, or personnel to or from cargo ships, freighters, or offshore oil infrastructure.
Placement of TX Number and Decal on Vessels:
TX # and validation decal to be placed each side of the vessel, near the bow, in such a position as to provide easy identification.
The number must read from left to right, be in block characters of good proportion not less than three inches in height and be of a color that contrasts with the color of the vessel.
The numerals must be separated from the prefix and suffix by hyphens or equivalent spaces such as the following example: TX 0001 GG or TX-0001-GG.
The validation decal must be affixed in a line and within three (3) inches towards the rear of the boat from the registration number (an example is shown on the decal document).
Vessels registered as antique boats are permitted to display the registration decal on the left portion of the windshield. In the absence of a windshield, the registration decal must be attached to the certificate of number and made available for inspection when the boat is operated on public water.
USCG Documented Vessels:

May display ONLY the validation decal (not the Registration (TX) Number) on both sides of the bow of the vessel; and
Must maintain current USCG Documentation.
Certificate of Number (registration) ID Card
A Certificate of Number ID Card is issued at the time of registration (with decals).

Must always be aboard and available for inspection by an enforcement officer;
Is valid for the two-year period shown on the card; and
Must also be aboard USCG Documented vessels that require registration.
Tax and Bill of Sale Requirements
Boat and Motor Tax:

TPWD is required by law to collect tax for vessels/boats (65 feet or less in length*) and outboard motors purchased in Texas or first used in Texas on or after January 1, 2000. The tax rate is 6.25% of the sales price. Tax is assessed at the time of registration/title transfer and is due within 20 days from the date of sale or date brought to Texas. Applications filed later than 20 working days are subject to tax penalties and interest. A bill of sale or invoice is required for every transfer of ownership. Trailers are handled through your local County Tax office and the price of the trailer must be separated from the price of the boat and motor. One of the following is acceptable to meet the bill of sale or invoice requirement:

Form PWD 143/144 application - sales price (not including trailer), date of sale, and trade-in information must be completed and signed by the seller.
Handwritten Receipt or Sales Invoice - must contain date of sale, sales price (not including trailer), description of vessel and/or outboard motor (make, serial number, and model year), purchaser’s name(s), and seller's signature(s).
Back of TPWD (brown) title completed with sales price, the name of the purchaser(s) and signature of the owner(s) listed on the front of the title or from their legally documented representative. (Older blue and green title formats do not have spaces for the bill of sale on the back).
*The purchaser of a vessel longer than 65 feet is required to pay sales and use tax to a permitted seller or directly to the Texas State Comptroller of Public Accounts (not TPWD).

New Resident Tax - $15.00 New Resident tax is assessed (not sales tax) for owners bringing their previously titled or registered boat and/or outboard motor from another state into Texas.

[Cheechako]

I tried to register a boat I had in Florida in my home state. They wouldn't take my money if the boat wasn't actually in the state! Imagine that. Of course if I had not told them it wasn't here they likely would have never known the difference.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I tried to register a boat I had in Florida in my home state. They wouldn't take my money if the boat wasn't actually in the state! Imagine that. Of course if I had not told them it wasn't here they likely would have never known the difference.

Why would one want to register [or title] in a State where the boat ISN'T located?



That would be like registering [or titling] your car in a State you don't drive in, the purpose evades me since registering in one State provides only temporary passage waiver within any other State.

[john61ct]

Those who are nomadic, stay in no one location nor jurisdiction for long, can process their paperwork for whatever jurisdiction is convenient.

Mailing address can be completely different from residence / legal domicile, and mobile property does not need to be associated with the jurisdiction of either.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Why would one want to register [or title] in a State where the boat ISN'T located?



That would be like registering [or titling] your car in a State you don't drive in, the purpose evades me since registering in one State provides only temporary passage waiver within any other State.

Well, one might not pay high tax in that particular state for one thing. But my reason was I intended to return the boat to my home state eventually so thought I would just register there.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Well, one might not pay high tax in that particular state for one thing. But my reason was I intended to return the boat to my home state eventually so thought I would just register there.

[Belezar]

So I am going through this dilemma right now. NC resident but boat will be on the move. I am working with a lawyer and he is recommending the Marshall Islands. I doubt I’d ever make it to there in the boat, so that makes that part work. The boat is currently in MD but registered in the BVIs. There is a fair bit of expense associated with this, offshore closing, etc, but it seems to generally remove the worries of US taxation as long as I don’t stay anywhere too long and get my cruising permit renewed. I had no idea that cruising in the US was such a nightmare of regulations and taxes for a US citizen. You’re treated better as a foreigner.

[Zzmeyer]

Belezar - as many have mentioned taxation and registration location are two entirely different issues. I have documented three boats in the US, never "registered" them in California, my home state (the DMV registration site for boats starts with "if your boat is documented (federal) do not register in California". Because the boats were sailed internationally I've never paid sales tax in any state. Of course, you need to keep good records. Why is your lawyer suggesting Marshall Islands? It can't be a taxation issue, but perhaps there is a reason. Make sure your lawyer specializes in "offshore deliveries" as you need to follow the regulations and rules precisely. My last boat at the end of the first year of ownership my lawyer filed with California a big document along with proof the boat had not been in California during that time and we received a tax clearance letter. As others have said, the states are very good at tracking down "cheats" so having that in hand is very comforting.

[unlimited]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Those who are nomadic, stay in no one location nor jurisdiction for long, can process their paperwork for whatever jurisdiction is convenient.

Mailing address can be completely different from residence / legal domicile, and mobile property does not need to be associated with the jurisdiction of either.

Since most states require registration if you stay there for more than 30/60 days, does that mean one can stay in a state for <30 days, move on to another for 30 days, then another, without having to pay sales tax, registration fees, and personal property taxes?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by unlimited

Since most states require registration if you stay there for more than 30/60 days, does that mean one can stay in a state for <30 days, move on to another for 30 days, then another, without having to pay sales tax, registration fees, and personal property taxes?

Depends on the specific rules of each jurisdiction and of course the nature of sale/use, and typically as to property / excise taxation usually there is a specific date as to presence of the property item being in a jurisdiction. Just simply research the details for each subject matter and location.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by unlimited

Since most states require registration if you stay there for more than 30/60 days, does that mean one can stay in a state for <30 days, move on to another for 30 days, then another, without having to pay sales tax, registration fees, and personal property taxes?

Yes to some extent. Some are 90 day stay. Florida for instance was when I was there. I stayed about 90 days and went to the Bahamas and south for 2+ years. If stored on the hard many overlook that the boat is in the state. They dont want to discourage business. The advantage you have is no record of when you arrived, although that could be dicey if they really wanted to get into it.

[larsfforsberg]

Set up a Montana LLC, and buy it through it. Cheap, fast, easy. What about Delaware? I would never register a boat where I live, nor would I "own" one. What's the point?