What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by monte

I have a few soft shackles but only used them once or twice. The plan was to use them for spinnaker sheets and halyard, but I found the old bowline to be faster and neater. They're a bit fiddly and another link in the chain to break..

I can see that I dont see much use on sheets my self .My use is going to be for attaching blocks to toe rails and such .I was also going to use it to attach the furler to the pole. My father who still loves this kind of stuff at 80 is making them as fast as i get him rope. He makes one called "the better soft knot". Not his label
sorry for the drift
David

[thinwater]

"I have a few soft shackles but only used them once or twice. The plan was to use them for spinnaker sheets and halyard, but I found the old bowline to be faster and neater. They're a bit fiddly and another link in the chain to break...."

"I can see that I dont see much use on sheets my self .My use is going to be for attaching blocks to toe rails and such .I was also going to use it to attach the furler to the pole. My father who still loves this kind of stuff at 80 is making them as fast as i get him rope. He makes one called "the better soft knot". Not his label
sorry for the drift."

• Soft shackles are MUCH stronger than bowlines. The are not a failure point. Every failure I have seen was due to a burr that would have eaten any rope or ridiculous undersizing.
• Use extra long, oversize soft shackles for sheets (at least 3/16"). They are much easier to handle.
• Properly made soft shackles do not open, even when flogged terribly.
• If they are fiddly you are either using the wrong sort (there are numerous styles--the ones you can buy are the worst for sheets and applications where they are removed--look at a hybrid style).
• Be careful about chafe on toe rails (there will be a rough spot if the stainless shackle was used before). Otherwise excellent, as they will not damage the aluminum.

[monte]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

I can see that I dont see much use on sheets my self .My use is going to be for attaching blocks to toe rails and such .I was also going to use it to attach the furler to the pole. My father who still loves this kind of stuff at 80 is making them as fast as i get him rope. He makes one called "the better soft knot". Not his label

sorry for the drift

David

Haha, good on ya dad. Yeah I'm sure there's some useful things for them, I just haven't found any yet although I have made quite a few simple lanyards with monkey fists 🙈 for keeping lines tidy here and there.

[admiralslater]

Thin Water how do you attach the sheet to the shackle ,or an I missing something ?
David

[monte]

these are the ones I have, and a larger one I was going to use for the halyard. Maybe one day I'll find a perfect use. Till then they're just hanging around (literally)

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by monte

Attachment 115985these are the ones I have, and a larger one I was going to use for the halyard. Maybe one day I'll find a perfect use. Till then they're just hanging around (literally)

Monte: That is perhaps the worst design for sheets and halyards. Try one of the hybrid designs (can't buy them, gotta make em'). In this design there is a second opening that makes opening much faster. Also less prone to jamming on junk when used on anchor chain. Just as secure. All of mine are of this type.



And yes, I love stropes (non-amsteel variations on soft shackles) for many uses. I have at least a dozen on the boat.





Sail Delmarva: My Favorite Sail Ties

Admiral:The soft shackle goes though splices:


In fact, I now attach the sheets to a sling attached to the tack. This greatly reduced snagging on the inner stay.



The reason I went to soft shackles is that I have 2 sets of genoa sheets (inner/outer tracks with a shroud between them). Also, I like continuous sheets (like on a dingy or beach cat) for single handing; it makes handling the sheets in tacks and jibes easier, for me. Other wise I would simply use a larks head. Much better IMHO.

Visit L36.com for a real soft shackle education. He has great instructional posts, and a lot of his designs have been strength tested. He is way ahead of anything you can buy.

[meirriba]

I do not think that soft shackles are another link to break - they replace s/s shackles that are a link in they own right.
Our soft shackles are made of dyneema - probably stronger than the steel shackles that were replaced.
Soft shackles are lighter.
Soft shackles fo not damage anything when in contact.
It is easy to see chafe. Easier than looking for microscopic cracks on s/s.

On the other hand - snap shackles are much easier to deploy and remove which may be the deciding factor for some.

[meirriba]

I do not think that soft shackles are another link to break - they replace s/s shackles that are a link in they own right.
Our soft shackles are made of dyneema - probably stronger than the steel shackles that were replaced.
Soft shackles are lighter.
Soft shackles fo not damage anything when in contact.
It is easy to see chafe. Easier than looking for microscopic cracks on s/s.

On the other hand - snap shackles are much easier to deploy and remove which may be the deciding factor for some.

[meirriba]

Apologies for the double posting.

[monte]

Oh I agree soft shackles would be better than SS shackles. Who wants a SS shackle flying around on a clew or head. Also yes they're usually much stronger than the sheets. Probably the strongest connection is a spliced eye in the sheet connected to a soft shackle. But our (and most)sheets and halyards are sized for easy handling and jammer sizes, so even though a bowline might reduce the breaking strain by 10%, they are still well and truly oversized for the task and get end for ended and trimmed occasionally to keep the tails in good order. Probably the most effective sheet would be soft shackles connected to dynema sheets, spliced to 16mm sheets at the cockpit for handling, but we are cruising and a single sheet and bowline works fine for us. I'd be interested to see some other applications for soft shackles. I know some people use them for attaching snubbers and bridles.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by monte

Oh I agree soft shackles would be better than SS shackles. Who wants a SS shackle flying around on a clew or head. Also yes they're usually much stronger than the sheets. Probably the strongest connection is a spliced eye in the sheet connected to a soft shackle. But our (and most)sheets and halyards are sized for easy handling and jammer sizes, so even though a bowline might reduce the breaking strain by 10%, they are still well and truly oversized for the task and get end for ended and trimmed occasionally to keep the tails in good order. Probably the most effective sheet would be soft shackles connected to dynema sheets, spliced to 16mm sheets at the cockpit for handling, but we are cruising and a single sheet and bowline works fine for us. I'd be interested to see some other applications for soft shackles. I know some people use them for attaching snubbers and bridles.

Just for accuracy sake, a bowline reduces line strength 35-50%. But yes, the sheet is usually sized for hand.

Yes, the hybrids would well for attaching snubbers. I have used that, though more often I use a hook (faster). Starzinger has good stuff on his blog.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by thinwater

• Soft shackles are MUCH stronger than bowlines. The are not a failure point. Every failure I have seen was due to a burr that would have eaten any rope or ridiculous undersizing.
• Use extra long, oversize soft shackles for sheets (at least 3/16"). They are much easier to handle.
• Properly made soft shackles do not open, even when flogged terribly.
• If they are fiddly you are either using the wrong sort (there are numerous styles--the ones you can buy are the worst for sheets and applications where they are removed--look at a hybrid style).
• Be careful about chafe on toe rails (there will be a rough spot if the stainless shackle was used before). Otherwise excellent, as they will not damage the aluminum.

I can only agree with all of the above. Depending on who tied the knot and who did the testing it seems most soft shackles break at about 130 to 170% of line strength, which for 1/4" Dyneema is about 8,000 lbs. We use soft shackles for attaching sheets, halyards, anchor bridles, topping lifts, blocks, reefing tacks...the list goes on. I have even gone aloft on them. Never had one open unplanned, never had one chafe through, although one does have to keep an eye on them if they are attached to something sharp.
Soft Shackles

[admiralslater]

Thinwater, I get it now. My sheets don't have eyes spliced in. I just use a Bowline. I guess max strength would be an eye splice and soft shackle. But as the others have said sheets are oversized for handling so for me not much point

[MikeFergie]

I recently bought an asymmetrical spinnaker for my down wind sailing. Every trip home requires the use of the sail.

I fly it off a bridle on the two bows

Simple to dowse by letting out the jib on the roller furler first and the dump the sheet and pull the sock down. My wind range is 10-20 knots. Wind angle 120-160 degrees

Rgards

MikeF


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[Michele iCan]

Nylon because it's cheaper than other materials, it's resistent enough (at least 2.5 oz), and with a top down furler when you furl it, it shrinkes a lot. The consequence is a very thin 'salami' on the bowsprit, that won't bother you even if you sail close to the wind with the genoa, even with strong wind.