What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Attachment 115607
Tweaked line.

To my mind, tweakers, barber haulers, twings and the like are part of head sail rigging, and understanding there use is basic. These should be installed and used before down wind sails are considered.

Actually, I use the same twing for both my genoa and chute. It also serves as preventer when wing-and-wing.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by monte

Regarding tweaking the jib, we simply run the lazy sheet around the mid cleat on the same side as the sheet. It's adjustable, but with friction and I don't really like to adjust it under load, so I generally use the sheet to take the load, then adjust the lazy sheet, then release the sheet load. This pins the clew nicely out wide near the stay a step two sheets hold it stable. Not as good an option as a dedicated tweaker, but it works well without additional hardware and lines needed.

What I don't like about this solution is that you can't let the sheet go in a hurry. If you do the tweaker line from the midship clear still holds the jib in place.

We use a tweaker line with a snatch block instead.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Dulcesuenos, see my post #13 with videos for guy and sheet set up. You can actually set up with either 2, 4 or 5 sheets/guys depending on how much control you want on the day and how much the wind may shift.


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Thanks Dave, think well try w 2 guys maybe using a 2 to 1 block setup cleated off on the front cleats and run 2 sheets back thru our snatch blocks to the winches.


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[meirriba]

Originally Posted by monte

yeah roachy gennakers dont furl well. Lots of stories of them coming open accidentally. Ours did once so we never left it raised again after that. A couple of friends had theirs destroyed when they unfurled in marinas. Id definitely go the sock route if going for that type of sail again

Ours opened up in the marina (in a heavy blow) ant started to destroy itself until friends saved it by taking it down. Expensive repair ensued...
The problem is that you usually decide to furl the gennaker when the wind picks up. But by then, under the wind pressure, the sail tends to furl very tightly on its halyard and this leaves the roach fluttering.
If you succeed to make the first rolls rather loose and fat, the sail will roll with the roach hidden. Then we roll two extra rolls and fix the endless line in a way that it cannot move.
All the above - only for short periods when we intend to use the gennaker in the (very) near future. Otherwise - it will be lowered down directly into its sailcover in a bow locker.

[rabbi]

This year I have seen 3 gennaker blown into pieces at anchor. Each time it was just a moderate blow of 25-30kn.

So I'm leaning towards an asym spi with a sock.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by rabbi

This year I have seen 3 gennaker blown into pieces at anchor. Each time it was just a moderate blow of 25-30kn.

So I'm leaning towards an asym spi with a sock.

I think that the real problem here is that a lot of bulky light weight sail is being kept aloft when perhaps it might be better down . My solution will be a flat triangle bag on the net so I can lower the sail when not in use and leave some of the connections on . If the weather requires it just unclip from the net and stow .
Choose what you like but if you make it easy to use you will get more out of it .

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

I think that the real problem here is that a lot of bulky light weight sail is being kept aloft when perhaps it might be better down .

I fully agree.

This is exactly what removable furlers are for when used with these sails. We take ours down after each use unless we know it'll be used again very soon. This prevents unintended un-furlings, removes the furled sail from UV, and removes the furled sail from hanging right in front of the genoa and disturbing its clean air flow when harder on the wind. A perfect set up.

Dave

[monte]

Pretty much as we always did, although we would drop it straight into a bow locker. But the furling with an endless line furler was always problematic in over 15kn AWS, which is why I'd likely go for a sock next time. Simpler, less hardware and maybe easier to douse in stronger winds? Any comment on that from people who have used both socks and continuous line furlers on same/similar sails?
Also I notice some cruising cats have a headsail permanently rigged on the prodder with substantial single line furling and uv strips. What's the deal with those? Are they usually a very large Genoa without much roach to allow them to furl better? Code zero maybe?

[admiralslater]

Monte, I would bet that code Zero is the answer. I am going to try this myself this winter on the Outremer

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by monte

Pretty much as we always did, although we would drop it straight into a bow locker. But the furling with an endless line furler was always problematic in over 15kn AWS, which is why I'd likely go for a sock next time. Simpler, less hardware and maybe easier to douse in stronger winds? Any comment on that from people who have used both socks and continuous line furlers on same/similar sails?

15 AWS is quite a handful, something like 25kn TWS. In strong winds we always use the engines to get us some good speed as we dose the asym spinnaker to reduce wind loads.
We don't use the main to blanket the spi, as then the spi tends to get sucked against the sail, spreaders, shrouds, etc. We just release the tack and let it fly, then get down the sock. Never a problem but ours is only good until 15-20kn TWS as its very light.

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by monte

Also I notice some cruising cats have a headsail permanently rigged on the prodder with substantial single line furling and uv strips. What's the deal with those? Are they usually a very large Genoa without much roach to allow them to furl better? Code zero maybe?

Hi Monte - many copies of my boat and other size Catanas of the same vintage have that arrangement >> a permanently mounted reacher on a sprit with a classic drum furler. It was a buyer's option. The sails are generally heavier than typical removable reachers/screechers/Code 0's and sheet outside the shrouds. I'm glad not to have this arrangement on my 471, but the owners who do have it are happy with it. One of those preference thingys. On later models, Catana installed solent jibs (self tacking) which all had the permanent reacher on a sprit combo. The smaller solent setup demanded that a larger sail was available for off the wind. Again, I'm glad not to have this arrangement as the smaller solent jib is underpowered upwind in light to moderate wind speeds. The price paid for the self tacking feature.

Dave

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

I think that the real problem here is that a lot of bulky light weight sail is being kept aloft when perhaps it might be better down . My solution will be a flat triangle bag on the net so I can lower the sail when not in use and leave some of the connections on . If the weather requires it just unclip from the net and stow .
Choose what you like but if you make it easy to use you will get more out of it .

We do something very similar. As we lower the furled code 0 we flake it onto a spinnaker turtle on the trampoline which then closes over the sail. We then attach the halyard and furler to the crossbeam with soft shackles, leaving the sail attached. To raise the sail we have only to release the soft shackles, tighten the 'downhaul' on the furling drum and raise the halyard.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by mikereed100

We do something very similar. As we lower the furled code 0 we flake it onto a spinnaker turtle on the trampoline which then closes over the sail. We then attach the halyard and furler to the crossbeam with soft shackles, leaving the sail attached. To raise the sail we have only to release the soft shackles, tighten the 'downhaul' on the furling drum and raise the halyard.

Mike ,I am Going to start using soft shackles this winter . I have a question regarding their ability to stay closed when they are holding something but not under tension. Have you had one open when you did not expect it?
David

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

Mike ,I am Going to start using soft shackles this winter . I have a question regarding their ability to stay closed when they are holding something but not under tension. Have you had one open when you did not expect it?
David

No problem if the shackle is properly made.
The opening should be just large enough that the head needs to be pushed through with some pressure.
We use soft shackles for some time now on two boats and never had a problem.

[monte]

I have a few soft shackles but only used them once or twice. The plan was to use them for spinnaker sheets and halyard, but I found the old bowline to be faster and neater. They're a bit fiddly and another link in the chain to break..