What boatspeed should I expect, as a percentage of True wind?

[GRIT]

It doesn't count if you own a marine store!

Paul.

[Training Wheels]

Wish we did, but my wife did use to work for West Marine! [emoji23]

[GRIT]

You must need a map to find all those clutches.

Paul.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by GRIT

You must need a map to find all those clutches.



Paul.

I have an app for that!

[GRIT]

Good one.

Paul.

[44'cruisingcat]

8 winches, 7 clutches, 2 of those for the moveable prodder.

[GRIT]

Are we including the ones in the boom for the reef lines?

3 winches, 12 clutches and two Locking foot blocks. More to come...

I feel so inadequate!

I've got a dollar that says nobody beats Training Wheels.

Paul.

[smj]

We have 3 winches and 26 lines run via clutches or cam cleats in our oh sh!t pit!

[JustMurph]

Only 7 winches and 12 clutches. I feel inadequate.

[jdazey]

OK, I'll play.


I always thought we had a simple sloop rig but:
Cockpit -

reef 2 tack and clew -2
reef 3 tack and clew -2
jib cars p&s -2
jib sheets p&s -2
main halyard -1
furler -1


Side decks -
traveler control p&s -2
runners p&s -2
barber haul p&s -2


Mast-
Jib halyard -1
main halyard -1
spin halyard -1
topping lift -1
reef 1 clew -1


Total of 21 clutches
7 winches

I'd like another winch on the boom for the outhaul as the internal 6:1 purchase doesn't seem to do much (too much friction?).
There are also a couple of cam cleats for the runners that don't do anything and so are ignored.

[Chotu]

Speaking back to the electric winch topic for a second, I’m a recent convert. I had always thought it didn’t make sense because they would be just another thing that would break. And that they would break often because it’s a salty wet environment.

However, on my 1986 Gulfstar, there were a pair of electric sheet winches. Outside. In the elements. These things were 35 years old and working great.

So, that changed my mind.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I had always thought it didn’t make sense because they would be just another thing that would break. And that they would break often because it’s a salty wet environment.

In general the electric winches don't 'break'. The electric component is normally mounted below decks, sealed and away from the salty wet environment.

So they are normally better than say an anchor windlass, because the electric motors are often in the interior of the boat as opposed to the salty damp anchor locker.

Additionally if an electric sheet winch 'breaks', it still keeps working in manual mode too of course. Putting a winch handle in mechanically disengages the electric motor.

Of course if the boat's layout means that the electric winch motor is mounted in a similar fashion to an anchor windlass where the motor and wiring themselves are exposed to a salty wet environment then you may have more issues.

And finally, just like an anchor windlass, what tends to give the most trouble is not the electric winch itself, but the electrical connections and the deck switches - so install everything carefully to be waterproof, and carry some drop in spares.

Personally I like having a setup with two electric winches (so a built in backup if you start relying on them) configured in a way that they can do a multitude of jobs.

They really 'shrink' the size and scale of bigger boats and sailplans and make everything far less daunting. How often are people reluctant to throw in a reef? And how often does it get them in trouble? And why is this? It's often because on many boats reefing is more difficult than it should be, and as a minimum it's also quite a lot of work on a big sailplan.

But you are not forced to use them. Feel free to get the physical excercise if and when you prefer.

But they are so useful for many other jobs too, such as mast climbing, kedging, dinghy, unusual docking situation, etc, etc - as well as if someone gets injured or falls sick during a passage.

A powered winch handle seems like a simple and good alternative with similar benefits if one doesn't want to go all the way to powered winches.

We all start to get older, and if we are short handed we should think about how the boat can be sailed for the rest of a passage if something less than ideal occurs.

My 2 cents

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

In general the electric winches don't 'break'. The electric component is normally mounted below decks, sealed and away from the salty wet environment.

So they are normally better than say an anchor windlass, because the electric motors are often in the interior of the boat as opposed to the salty damp anchor locker.

Additionally if an electric sheet winch 'breaks', it still keeps working in manual mode too of course. Putting a winch handle in mechanically disengages the electric motor.

Of course if the boat's layout means that the electric winch motor is mounted in a similar fashion to an anchor windlass where the motor and wiring themselves are exposed to a salty wet environment then you may have more issues.

And finally, just like an anchor windlass, what tends to give the most trouble is not the electric winch itself, but the electrical connections and the deck switches - so install everything carefully to be waterproof, and carry some drop in spares.

Personally I like having a setup with two electric winches (so a built in backup if you start relying on them) configured in a way that they can do a multitude of jobs.

They really 'shrink' the size and scale of bigger boats and sailplans and make everything far less daunting. How often are people reluctant to throw in a reef? And how often does it get them in trouble? And why is this? It's often because on many boats reefing is more difficult than it should be, and as a minimum it's also quite a lot of work on a big sailplan.

But you are not forced to use them. Feel free to get the physical excercise if and when you prefer.

But they are so useful for many other jobs too, such as mast climbing, kedging, dinghy, unusual docking situation, etc, etc - as well as if someone gets injured or falls sick during a passage.

A powered winch handle seems like a simple and good alternative with similar benefits if one doesn't want to go all the way to powered winches.

We all start to get older, and if we are short handed we should think about how the boat can be sailed for the rest of a passage if something less than ideal occurs.

My 2 cents

Great explanation, thanks.

We don’t need electric winches in our cockpit, as none of the loads are high. The only harder winching is the mainsheet after a reef in heavier weather, bringing in all the slack then loaded sheet to get the boom back on or near the centreline.

Our halyards are at the mast and power assistance for hoisting the mainsail, or a person up the mast, is currently provided by the rope drum of our windlass. With our previous AGM house bank that meant running a motor, as the voltage sag in the older batteries was intolerable. However with the new lithium house bank we should be able to use the windlass without the engine.

We had considered an electric winch on the mast, but realised that we already have an electric motor there (the windlass). Also, we weren’t sure about mounting an electric winch horizontally on the mast. Are there such models?

[Tupaia]

Andersen make a compact electric winch that would probably mount on a mast although never seen it done. Selden have just introduced an electric winch for direct mounting on a mast, being mast makers this makes sense. No idea how much.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Great explanation, thanks.

We don’t need electric winches in our cockpit, as none of the loads are high. The only harder winching is the mainsheet after a reef in heavier weather, bringing in all the slack then loaded sheet to get the boom back on or near the centreline.

Yeah, you are right that often it's not just a question of load, but also a lot of line, or as I mentioned, crew becoming physically incapacitated, in which case even low loads may be a problem.

Also line speed often isn't great on standard smaller diameter halyard and sheet type winches that tend to be used during reefing.

Electric can add more line speed too, which is a nice bonus.
I loved watching the extra long 3rd reefing line get sucked in without breaking a sweat after we installed an electric winch.

Originally Posted by fxykty

Our halyards are at the mast and power assistance for hoisting the mainsail, or a person up the mast, is currently provided by the rope drum of our windlass. With our previous AGM house bank that meant running a motor, as the voltage sag in the older batteries was intolerable. However with the new lithium house bank we should be able to use the windlass without the engine.

Yep, had that type of setup before too. Using the capstan of the anchor windlass is sure better than having no powered option at all. And why not use it, given that it's being carried around anyway?

In fact when we went to a new windlass there was talk of a flush mounted model instead, but we just couldn't give up having no powered option on deck. It does depend on the boat's deck layout a bit though.

Originally Posted by fxykty

We had considered an electric winch on the mast, but realised that we already have an electric motor there (the windlass). Also, we weren’t sure about mounting an electric winch horizontally on the mast. Are there such models?

This wasn't really possible in the past, at least not in an aesthetically pleasing way, since the electric (or hydraulic) motor still needs to go somewhere, and it can't go inside the mast. So boats with that type of setup tend to have big ugly boxes there to house the motor.

But Anderson Winches have their 'Compact' model now with a motor that is contained in the base.

Typical Electric Winch (motor can normally be vertical or horizontal):
https://andersenwinches.com/aw/Electric-Winches.asp



Anderson Compact:
https://andersenwinches.com/aw/winch...t_electric.asp

"An ANDERSEN exclusive, our Compact Electric Winch motor uses non-carbon brush technology to virtually eliminate the wear and tear of traditional electric motor designs. It uses 30-50% less power, yet can be positioned within the diameter of a standard winch mounting footprint for tight space applications. The ANDERSEN Compact Motor™ Electric Winch is available in two models for either Above Deck or Below Deck motor placement."