Watermakers and Harbors

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

^^^^^^
Ding Ding....
Is a water maker a requirement to go cruising? No.
But neither is a lot of equipment commonly found on boats today that want to Go Cruising....Not Camping....

Ding ding back at you.
I always love the guy that says a watermaker isn't needed. No. But then I answer that a boat isn't needed either. Times they are a changin. What was considered a luxury on a boat ten just years ago is pretty much standard equipment today.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Q2:
Pumps like to push better than suck, so I always recommend putting your filter on the pressure side of the pump.

For Q1:
It's all about budget vs risk vs complexity.
You can't beat the Simplicity of adding chlorine to your tanks periodically but if you have aluminum tanks you have to rule that option out. The truth is I think all options can be done in tandem. Filter your dock water going in with a 1 Micron activated carbon filter, then put a UV light at your Galley sink for your drinking water. When it comes to spending the night on the toilet and if you're going to places with poor quality water spending a few bucks on prevention probably isn't the bad idea.

Kinda adding to Richs response. I also prefer a house filter on the out put side of the pressure pump. This also then filters all plumbing lines and outlets. But make sure you get a decent quality filter housing, there are low pressure housings and high pressure housings. Some pressure pumps these days are strong enough to burst a cheap housing. I'm a very big believer in the SeaGull filters. At least one point of use at the galley sink where most consumption is done. They are not cheap but in my opinion they are hands down the best. But as Rich mentions, a few nights on the toilet and you'll think a good filter not such a bad idea. UV filters, again mostly used as a point of use, are becoming more and more rare these days. They work but even a well maintained water system will have some critters that get through. But they are usually so insignificant as not to worry about them. As Momma always said when she directed us kids to drink from the hose outside "It's good for your immune system"

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Q2: Pumps like to push better than suck, so I always recommend putting your filter on the pressure side of the pump.

For Q1:
It's all about budget vs risk vs complexity.
You can't beat the Simplicity of adding chlorine to your tanks periodically but if you have aluminum tanks you have to rule that option out. The truth is I think all options can be done in tandem. Filter your dock water going in with a 1 Micron activated carbon filter, then put a UV light at your Galley sink for your drinking water. When it comes to spending the night on the toilet and if you're going to places with poor quality water spending a few bucks on prevention probably isn't the bad idea.

Originally Posted by Tellie

Kinda adding to Richs response. I also prefer a house filter on the out put side of the pressure pump. This also then filters all plumbing lines and outlets. But make sure you get a decent quality filter housing, there are low pressure housings and high pressure housings. Some pressure pumps these days are strong enough to burst a cheap housing. I'm a very big believer in the SeaGull filters. At least one point of use at the galley sink where most consumption is done. They are not cheap but in my opinion they are hands down the best. But as Rich mentions, a few nights on the toilet and you'll think a good filter not such a bad idea. UV filters, again mostly used as a point of use, are becoming more and more rare these days. They work but even a well maintained water system will have some critters that get through. But they are usually so insignificant as not to worry about them. As Momma always said when she directed us kids to drink from the hose outside "It's good for your immune system"

Thanks Rich and Tellie for your seasoned advice, having looked at so many installations

General notes and specific questions
Filter on pressure side of FW pump

Chlorine in moderation (except alloy tanks

Q3 Chlorine mix ratio and frequency?

Q4 If only using product water, would you still chlorine?
Q5 if yes to Q4, danger and solutions for flushing membranes?

Understand filter for taking on Dock water, (1 micron activated carbon)...but if I am also filtering Tank Water on pressure side and Tellie recommends Seagull,

Q5....what should be the model and filter configuration for a Jabsco Par-Max 5 that shuts off at 50psi? (I have lots of installation room)

For UV, I sense from both that most installations you've seen are more of an Owner's placebo than an actual health benefit. Yes/No??

Q6. If you still thought it worthwhile....is there a small volume UV system with dedicated tap that could be mounted at Galley for filling drinking water?

Thanks to all for your thoughts and any others

[a64pilot]

Don’t forget you probably want a low voltage DC UV light, 110VAC means always having the inverter on.
If memory serves there is an issue on both lamp life on UV lights and switching them on and off. I think most are mercury or sodium lights? Although there may be LED ones too?
Personally I gave up on UV and have stayed with the Seagull. I did not buy a UV, just seemed to be too many issues to solve, in my opinion.
My Aqua King II pump supplies 55 PSI and I have been using a filter housing from Lowe’s that works fine, however I do not think it would be good for a watermaker prefilter cartridge, cause I’m pretty sure it has brass parts, and brass and saltwater don’t seem to go together well.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by micah719

In a way, as sailors we already are nuclear-powered; thankfully the reactor is 92 million miles away.

It's getting close, though. How much more complexity can a boat handle and still be reasonably fixable? There must be a point where there are so many systems and parts that the probability of a truly joy-killing failure is so high that one dreads going far away from the supply chain at all; and perhaps considers "getting back to it all" might be preferable to taking it all with you.

Just out of interest, what are your plans B and C, once you're in that ultra remote location, and your watermaker dies? I'm not being contentious, just curious. It's been an informative thread, and the intricacies of enjoying a watermaker make me think they're a nice luxury one should be wary of totally trusting.

plan b and plan c for me would be using the katadyn survivor 35 that is in my ditch kit untill I could either get to civilization or effect repairs.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

^^^^^^
Ding Ding....
Is a water maker a requirement to go cruising? No.
But neither is a lot of equipment commonly found on boats today that want to Go Cruising....Not Camping....

Had my weekly water making session yesterday. Without the water maker I would of hauled 30 jerry cans to the boat.... I'm a watermaker fan boy!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by micah719

In a way, as sailors we already are nuclear-powered; thankfully the reactor is 92 million miles away.

It's getting close, though. How much more complexity can a boat handle and still be reasonably fixable? There must be a point where there are so many systems and parts that the probability of a truly joy-killing failure is so high that one dreads going far away from the supply chain at all; and perhaps considers "getting back to it all" might be preferable to taking it all with you.

Just out of interest, what are your plans B and C, once you're in that ultra remote location, and your watermaker dies? I'm not being contentious, just curious. It's been an informative thread, and the intricacies of enjoying a watermaker make me think they're a nice luxury one should be wary of totally trusting.

We generally carry a reasonable amount of water even with a watermaker.

If it failed we'd be in more or less the same position as those who don't have a watermaker.

But despite the negative impression threads like this might give, they're quite reliable pieces of equipment given reasonable care. About a year ago I worked out that ours had produced between 80 and 100 thousand litres of excellent water, and still works perfectly.

And the reality is that we can stay away from the supply chain when others are starting to worry about where they can fill their tanks.

[daletournier]

If my watermaker broke down then I just go back to being a boat without a watermaker! 5 tanks totalling 800 liters gives you plenty of time.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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I assume our fuel filter are before the pump for safety, a leaking filter will suck air as opposed to spraying fuel? Cause I think they should be after the pump.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

a64, the reason is that most of the fuel lift pumps have small screens in the bottom of the chamber, and the purpose of the fuel filter is to, uhm, filter, as a primary. Use the fuel filter to deal with the fuel coming out of the tank, not the tiny filter on the lift pump.

When they first started making our boat in the mid-80s, many skippers reported being stranded because their fuel systems "died." This was traced down to blocked fuel lift pump screens, and the incorrect plumbing of the fuel lines from the factory. Should be tank>>primary filter>>lift pump>>engine mounted secondary filter>>engine. Has nothing to do with spraying fuel or sucking air.

[SV THIRD DAY]

My general boat operating philosophy is to always make water before I have used 1/2 of my water tank storage capacity. That way if my water maker breaks I have 1/2 my capacity left to either go get water or fix the water maker.

I have received water maker initial start up calls via sat phone from South Pacific crossings, where the crew had emptied the water tank and now was the time to start the newly installed water maker for the Frist Time.....don't be "that guy".

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Has nothing to do with spraying fuel or sucking air.

See, I think it does. Look at other Diesels to see where they put filters, and automobiles, they are all after the low pressure pump, reason is a vacuum is often damaging for a pump, and a pump more easily makes pressure, not vacuum, amount of vacuum is very limited, not so for pressure.
Also I know for a gasoline boat a pressurized fuel line is not allowed inside of the hull, to accommodate that rule my Verado had what amounted to a toilet tank on the back of the motor with two pumps and a float switch, the float switch tuned on and off a low pressure fuel pump that kept the tank full, then there was a high pressure pump inside of the tank to run the fuel injection. It was a point of failure, and the early model engines had failures of the float switch sticking high and killing the engine.
Regular motors like automobiles for instance put the HP pump in the tank and forgo small tanks, extra pumps and float switches, however you can’t have a pressurized fuel line in the hull.

Also even if not required, not having a pressurized fuel line makes sense from a safety standpoint.

Fuel line “sock” filters, and low pressure pump inlet screens exist for motor installations that have the filter after the pump to protect the pump from damage from foreign objects, they have no purpose on systems that have the filter before the pump

[smj]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Ding ding back at you.
I always love the guy that says a watermaker isn't needed. No. But then I answer that a boat isn't needed either. Times they are a changin. What was considered a luxury on a boat ten just years ago is pretty much standard equipment today.

I'm sure there were many successful and enjoyable cruises made before watermakers hit the market, so yes they are not a necessity for most but instead a luxury. Possibly a necessity for someone who is disabled and unable to jug water to the boat, but also jugging water can be a good workout and gives something to do to break up the day. We have never owned or felt the need for a watermaker and to be honest never considered the fact that we hauled water put us in "camping" bracket, but it did put us about $5-$8k ahead of those that do have watermakers! As my back gets older and hauling water becomes a chore rather than a needed workout we will consider a watermaker, but until then will haul our water with pride!

[Caribbeachbum]

It seems like minimum frequency of making water might be dictated by microbiology as much as tank size and usage rage. That is, how fast biological fouling builds up in the watermaker when it sits unused. Is this as important as I think it is? It seems like an ideal scenario requires that you operate the watermaker every two-three days or so to keep it flushed clear of biological fouling.

Given this, would it make any sense to sterilize the raw water feed? It seems like pushing the seawater through a strong UV sterilizer before it goes into the watermaker would drastically increase the time it would take for the watermaker to become fouled by biological growth. Has anyone tried this? Would it make a difference?

Pardon the thread drift. I don't own a watermaker yet, but I will be buying one in within the next year, if all goes well. This thread seemed like a good place to ask.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

It seems like minimum frequency of making water might be dictated by microbiology as much as tank size and usage rage. That is, how fast biological fouling builds up in the watermaker when it sits unused. Is this as important as I think it is? It seems like an ideal scenario requires that you operate the watermaker every two-three days or so to keep it flushed clear of biological fouling.



Given this, would it make any sense to sterilize the raw water feed? It seems like pushing the seawater through a strong UV sterilizer before it goes into the watermaker would drastically increase the time it would take for the watermaker to become fouled by biological growth. Has anyone tried this? Would it make a difference?



Pardon the thread drift. I don't own a watermaker yet, but I will be buying one in within the next year, if all goes well. This thread seemed like a good place to ask.

You can just fresh water flush your watermaker every three days too. There are even automatic flush kits and water makers that flush automatically so you don’t have to remember.
It’s the “food” so to speak that is in raw water that causes the problems, same critters that can stink up your heads.
Not real sure you could sterilize that much raw water flow, and you would still have the dead critters that would allow even small amounts of remaining bacteria to grow.
Easiest to fresh water flush although I believe we will be making water twice a week as I don’t have a large tank and watermaker run time is very close to the same anyway, make water for two hours twice a week, or once a week for four hours and a 5 min fresh water flush once a week. Twice a week watermaking negates the fresh water flush requirement. Of course you fresh water flush after making water. You don’t leave salt water in the system

[scarlet]

It is my understanding that the UV filter should come AFTER the watermaker as a final sterilization. It is also my understanding (based on our pond filtration system) that the UV filter is really nothing more than a pipe with a strong lamp.. so it should not slow down water flow at all.

In case I am wrong.. would someone please provide me with simple sequence of the whole water system, i.e. intake, strainer, pump.. etc.. or, whatever the proper sequence would be, for the safest cleanest and best tasting water.