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16-03-2020, 17:31
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,916
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailjumanji
Oh, and the guys sitting there with money to buy haven't seen their available funds drop with the market?
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They are smart and sitting on a pile of cash
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16-03-2020, 17:40
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,268
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailjumanji
Oh, and the guys sitting there with money to buy haven't seen their available funds drop with the market?
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That’s assuming they’ve invested their money in the market?
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16-03-2020, 19:53
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#18
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: PDQ 36, 36'5", previously Leopard 45 cat and Hunter 33 mono
Posts: 1,345
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab
It's definitely going to affect sales in the Caribbean and South Pacific because most potential buyers can't travel there. Locally we will probably see depressed prices too because of the possibility of limited travel. Boat prices were down in 2008. Gas went way up just after that so power boats were not the best investments.
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Well, if you are from the US, you can certainly still go to the BVI.
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16-03-2020, 20:00
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,034
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
It's not just the sellers' side of things. Many buyers who would have been looking for a cat in the next few years just found themselves a lot poorer. And most likely will put off that purchase until their investments crawl back up.
So what if that $500K used cat is now being offered at $400K if the potential buyers who had that $500K to play with now only have $300K, if that much.
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16-03-2020, 20:00
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 50’ Bavaria
Posts: 1,809
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Rabbi raises a good point : the charter market will be decimated this season, and that's not going to be a lot of fun for those who borrowed to give their new boat to the charter companies.
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16-03-2020, 20:56
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#21
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Writing Full-Time Since 2014
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,569
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
Yes, but in the US I would guess the vast majority of 2nd home owners and boat owners are mortgaged to the hilt living paycheck to paycheck.
It’s a sad but true fact.
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None that I know. They paid cash. And if they did sell at a loss, they'd be upside down, which wouldn't solve much.
You wait. And go sailing.
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16-03-2020, 20:57
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#22
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Writing Full-Time Since 2014
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,569
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsbury
Rabbi raises a good point : the charter market will be decimated this season, and that's not going to be a lot of fun for those who borrowed to give their new boat to the charter companies.
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This is where the pain will be felt first.
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16-03-2020, 21:58
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Boat: 31' Corsair/Farrier(RIP) trimaran. Lauwersmeer Cruiser in Europe canals. 19' Lightning
Posts: 416
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
I was wondering about that. Don't the big charter company agreements guarantee income to the owners? Maybe there's some "act of God" fine print in there.
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17-03-2020, 03:13
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,916
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejlindahl
I was wondering about that. Don't the big charter company agreements guarantee income to the owners? Maybe there's some "act of God" fine print in there.
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They will just bust like many other companies: Hotels, taxi drivers, restaurants, ...
I am sure Covid will have longer lasting impact on how & where the world travels.
I am sure in 6-10 months you can pick up charter catamarans at a good price. But "good price" is relative, I don't think they will come down to 2016 prices, let alone 2009/2010 prices.
But you never know...
Cynical fact:
The majority of boat owners are high risk patients due to age. The health care systems in many countries are in bad shape, and unable to cope with the inflow of elderly patients requiring ventilation and intensive care. Death toll seems to increase significantly around 60 years and up.
All regions -but especially the "Dolce Vita" countries in southern Europe- will see many fresh heirs over the next weeks and months, and many of them will have lost their job in the turmoil and be in need of money.
cynical but true... There will certainly be bargains.
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17-03-2020, 04:53
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 349
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
I’m keeping my eyes open as I’m one of those conservative investors who is seeing potential deals popping up down the road. This may force the wife and my hand to go a tad earlier than planned. Boats like real estate will go on sale in the ripple effect that’s not yet started from the economic shut down. It’s not a slow down like past recessions or crisis, it’s a stop in activity.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong.
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17-03-2020, 05:22
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 5,067
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by contrail
Well, if you are from the US, you can certainly still go to the BVI.
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Because the US is now considered a "high risk country" you will be quarantined for 14 days if you have not been away from the US for at least that long.
https://viconsortium.com/vi-coronavi...virus-pandemic
__________________
Slowly going senile but enjoying the ride.
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17-03-2020, 05:27
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
With interest rates at near zero it’s a good time to buy for borrowers, and those that have cash might do well to borrow and stash their money elsewhere.
That being said, if boats are considered luxury items then they will be unaffected by any recession.
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17-03-2020, 09:41
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 149
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi
Problem is at least for those wanting to buy in Europe:
You can't get anywhere. Borders closed, flights cancelled, hotels closed, ... Also you can't sail in many countries. You can't even stock up in some regions. Everything is locked down.
Its not a great time to be on a boat in Europe. Personally I feel lucky that I sold mine and haven't found a new one yet
Financially:
Charter revenue will be extremely low in Europe this year as most people will actually go nowhere for the next few weeks / months. Also we will see how many people will still have the money to charter, as unemployment and debt levels will massively increase with this crisis.
By end of the season there could be a few charter boats on the market as people can't afford them anymore with every asset class being down significantly.
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Spot on! Ports in Europe are closed. You have to stay where you are right now. Currently, sitting in La Rochelle and everything is closed. No services available.
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17-03-2020, 09:45
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroman
Hello,
Before y'all start, I know, the best place to be right now is on a boat (not selling it!). Unfortunately, I'm a few months late and looking to buy a catamaran (to get on the water!). I have no idea what the lasting impact of the current health and economic chaos will lead to. But, let's assume this is going to drag us into a recession.
For anyone that remembers 2008, what happened to the boat market during that time?
Is it a bad time to buy a boat because in a recession prices come down and availability goes up?
Thanks for your insight!
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I would wait. There could be any no. of crazy things like foreclosures liens, etc. with over leveraged toys.
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17-03-2020, 11:38
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 2,592
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Re: Used catamaran prices, availability during recession or crisis?
I am sure there will be some deals; the question is how many. I have seen a very small number of fire sale deals over the last few years when I have been looking for a second boat to sail out of season. One of the best deals I saw was due to a monohull owner getting divorce and selling low to spite his wife. One other big consideration in buying a fire sale boat is that it may need big upgrades if the owner has not maintained it; making it not that great a deal.
My biggest concern is how long the down turn will last; and how uneven the effects will be. I was in Mexico in November and December and getting 18-19 pesos to the dollar; now it is up over 23. While the US economy is getting hit hard other countries are getting hit worse.
I am not sure how many nice boat owners are leveraged to the point that they will be forced to sell. Before I bought my boat I contacted some lenders about financing and most were not willing to lend money on an asset that would be depreciating in value. It did not make sense for me to borrow money at a higher than normal rate when I could pay cash. The monkey in the wrench is the folks who borrowed to get a boat in the charter market which seems headed for a real downturn. On the other hand a charter layout is not always viewed as the best setup compared to the owners version.
Bottom line is there are way too many variables (not the least of which is just how long the down turn will last) to say what will shake out. As Yogi Berra said "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."
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