Unsinkable Fountaine Pajot

[Simi 60]

None of those boats have sunk.
They are aglub, but still floating all be it somewhat down on their lines.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Polux

That´s really simple: Cats or multihulls that are made of materials lighter than water don't sink all the others sink. Only race boats or very fast performance multihulls are on the first cathegory, Fountain Pajot and all the condo cats will sink as it was seen on many ocassions, the last precisely a Fountain Pajot:

The last one looks like a Lagoon to me.

the one before is a FP, and that one doesn't look sunk to me. At least not yet.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

No doubt.

So you really believe it's not possible to build a boat that won't sink?

How about Boston Whalers? How about Etap?

If you put enough foam in a cruising boat you might get a sink resistant boat, but you'll probably have a company that sinks.

[geoleo]

The TITANTIC was also billed as unsinkable

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by geoleo

The TITANTIC was also billed as unsinkable

The entire point of this thread is that the entire weight of these boats when properly loaded is LESS than the water displaced resulting in a floating vessel no matter what. That is a very different concept than marketing the increased safety of watertight bulkheads to prevent flooding. There is no scenario where a foundered Titanic does not end up on the bottom of the ocean and no scenario where a properly loaded FP does not end up on the surface.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Paul L

If you put enough foam in a cruising boat you might get a sink resistant boat, but you'll probably have a company that sinks.

It's obviously more difficult with a keelboat. You have to compensate for the ballast, which requires several cubic metres more foam.

But it's actually not difficult to make a composite multihull positively bouyant. It doesnt call for excessively thick cores.

For example, the basic materials to build the bare, empty shell of my boat occupied nearly 9 cubic metres. The average core thickness is around 15mm. The bare, empty, but complete boat, which would include quite a bit more than the initial 9 m3 of material, at launch would have weighed less than 4.5 tonnes.

So even with no sealed bouyancy compartments, (of which there are many) the boat would have AT LEAST 4-5 TONNES of positive bouyancy.

In fact it amazes me how some manufacturers manage to build composite cats so heavy they don't or barely float. Do they fill the keels with lead? Old habits?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by geoleo

The TITANTIC was also billed as unsinkable

It was always just a matter of time.....

[Palarran]

Well, lets see if we can guess how many times on this forum a thread had either started or degenerated to "Catamaran's don't sink - Yes they do"

I'd go with 37 times.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

Coastal cruisers probably have 0.5 kn faster long term average over ocean cruisers, so if one sails bar to bar, coastal cruiser is the way to go as sometimes can make bar before tide turns. But some have bigger ambition. From your writing, can see that you never sail Lagoon and use CF 'knowledge base' to judge. I can tell you that sailing Lagoon in last 6000 NM trip was pure pleasure, not just for me, my wife agrees as well.

Well actually, I have sailed a Lagoon. 380.

Have you sailed any performance boats?

You seem to not use any "knowledge base", rather just make things up as you go.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

None of those boats have sunk.
They are aglub, but still floating all be it somewhat down on their lines.

It's amazing isn't it? Somehow photo's of boats that haven't sunk are meant to prove that they did sink.

Is this what passes for logic around here?

[smj]

The 40’ 3 ton cat we just purchased had the depth sounder blown out in a lightning strike leaving a 2” hole in he port hull. According to the old owner you could hardly tell she had a hole in the bottom as she was just listing a few degrees. She had about 6” of water above the floorboards and doesn’t have much bilge so not a lot of water being taken on.
Ive got a plan. Before we go offshore cruising I plan on drilling a 2” hole in each hull so we have a blue water boat like Arsenelupgia instead of a coastal cruiser. I mean obviously the extra weight would help?

[Helia 44]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Awesome feedback, Helia44.

Since you've sailed both, why do you think they perform equally under sail? The Saba is 15.7T at 49ft with a combined sail area of 1520sq ft. The Helia is 11T at 44ft with a combined sail area of 1238sq ft. By waterline length alone, I expected the Saba to be faster. Is the extra 9000lbs the great equalizer?

Thalas,
I am speaking in familiar terms with the Helia 44 and Saba 50 being single handed by myself.. That is just sort of cruising speed with my twin headsail rig, gennaker or working jib and main sail.. On the Helia 44 in a race, with a large gennaker that was fairly flat cut for upwind, I pushed the Helia to 11-12 knots at 35-40 degrees in 25 knots apparent. I am sure with a larger Gennaker (have a very large one but not tried it yet) I can push the Saba 50 even faster because of the longer waterline and size of rig. It also cuts through the 1-2 meter wind waves easier, where the Helia was more reactive to it. The Saba is just more sea kindly..

I was just speaking figuratively to easy single handling. It does also motor about the same way, by having D2-75's rather than the D2-55's the Helia had...

All in all, believe me, being less reactive I really think the Saba 50 is EASIER to sail and single handle.. Less reactive to the seas, more sea kindly and stable to work with... But mine also has all powered winches, more added, and is a lot more boat to handle the seas better...

Kind regards, Helia 44 on a Saba 50 now...

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Well, lets see if we can guess how many times on this forum a thread had either started or degenerated to "Catamaran's don't sink - Yes they do"

I'd go with 37 times.

The reality is, SOME catamarans can sink. I don't think anyone denies that.

The point is, it IS possible to build them so they can't. It's not even difficult.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

The reality is, SOME catamarans can sink. I don't think anyone denies that.

The point is, it IS possible to build them so they can't. It's not even difficult.

How would buying a boat ( cat or mono) that is marketed as unsinkable change what you might do with the vessel? I'm not sure it would factor in much to my passage decision making. Perhaps it wouldnt factor in at all. Would I then feel more comfortable doing the NW Passage or sailing to Antarctica?

It is very difficult keeping a boat at a light load while long term cruising. Some do much better than others. Doing more extreme, high latitude sailing takes An even heavier load.

Unsinkable does make a good marketing campaign.

[peterp]

[QUOTE=Polux;2764148]That´s really simple: Cats or multihulls that are made of materials lighter than water don't sink all the others sink. Only race boats or very fast performance multihulls are on the first cathegory, Fountain Pajot and all the condo cats will sink as it was seen on many ocassions, the last precisely a Fountain Pajot:[IMG]

Thanks for the photo's Polux very good I must say I have never seen so many partially submerged catamarans, I agree with Simi60 the cats in the photo's haven't sunk, almost perhaps but maybe there is enough left floating to access food etc which could save your life if they stayed as is, who knows, but maybe the definition by FP that there boats are unsinkable should be more specific and maybe state 'Our boats will submerge somewhat but the bows will always sit out of the water" they need to look at the FP in the pictures. I rather thought the statement by FP that there boats will not sink was a very strong statement, however the comments on my thread have been most interesting, it wont stop me buying a FP should I choose to go down that path. Must say how would a mono fair (I am not a one eyed Catamaran person) if impacted with the same damage.