Trimaran for a Single Hander... Why Not?

[HapaPops]

If you get some training - sure, why not?

Low speed motor handling in cross winds will be the hardest part.

No doubt, this is a big, powerful boat. I decided not to get the sistership from Hawaii as I need a day sailor/week at a time boat. This boat looks to me to be a long range cruiser. Long "legs" if you will. I really like the design.

[Mike Banks]

I am over seventy and I still sail my tri single-handedly. A Liahona is probably one of the best tri's ever designed--and if well built in non-rotting materials would be my perfect choice were it not for the insurance and resale angle. I would offer about eighty for this--they can only say no. Things are tough and buyers for tris are not as plentiful as those for catamarans.

[ty.gregory]

Thank you for both the above answers.

Mr. banks I was thinking the same thing regarding resale value. I could see offering quite a bit less than asking price for a tri, because, as you say, resale is difficult, not to mention getting insurence. I don't want to steal another person's boat, but hey, I'm going to face the same problem when it's my turn to sell it.

[bobconnie]

Connie and I love Tri's, but to find one made of real Glass, or even a yard bilt Tri is almost impossible!! at least for us !I don't carry hull ins But must have liabilty at least !! So you folks are saying you can't get Liabilty ins on Tris that meet survey?? just asking cus it would be a deal breaker for me ! No liabilty is a big No No !!

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Connie and I love Tri's, but to find one made of real Glass, or even a yard bilt Tri is almost impossible!! at least for us !I don't carry hull ins But must have liabilty at least !! So you folks are saying you can't get Liabilty ins on Tris that meet survey?? just asking cus it would be a deal breaker for me ! No liabilty is a big No No !!

have owned 3 tris in 10 years, always insured for liability and agreed-value on hull. No issue with survey in sound condition. Some insurers don't like multihulls, others its a non-issue.

[bobconnie]

Thanks SFT, thats what Ive always found in the past !! I guess OZ is different then US ! but Liabilty Ins should be ok for any marina,That I was ever at !!

[Mike Banks]

Yes--in Australia it is almost impossible to get third party liability insurance for a trimaran, and most companies like to insure only for comprehensive cover for any vessel here. It would be great to get cover from an American insurance company--but I think most only insure vessels registered in the US--correct me if I am wrong. Here it is hard to insure any ferro-cement or wooden vessels, but one can usually get cover at an increased premium for wood--but it has to be surveyed more frequently to maintain cover. Survey is essential for any insurance cover here--and some prefer their own surveyors--that is one on their own list of useful people.

I used to have mine insured--took me ages to find one that would cover me. In the finish they refused to renew it--citing "New" criteria which excluded trimarans. I had never made any kind of claim in the years I had cover, and the vessel survived two major cyclones without significant damage sufficient to make a claim. Mine was also built by a professional builder as his own toy. I was the third owner--the first two were family.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Yes--in Australia it is almost impossible to get third party liability insurance for a trimaran, and most companies like to insure only for comprehensive cover for any vessel here. It would be great to get cover from an American insurance company--but I think most only insure vessels registered in the US--correct me if I am wrong. Here it is hard to insure any ferro-cement or wooden vessels, but one can usually get cover at an increased premium for wood--but it has to be surveyed more frequently to maintain cover. Survey is essential for any insurance cover here--and some prefer their own surveyors--that is one on their own list of useful people.

I used to have mine insured--took me ages to find one that would cover me. In the finish they refused to renew it--citing "New" criteria which excluded trimarans. I had never made any kind of claim in the years I had cover, and the vessel survived two major cyclones without significant damage sufficient to make a claim. Mine was also built by a professional builder as his own toy. I was the third owner--the first two were family.

If you want to have a go at it, try my marine agent Keenan Marine Insurance I deal with Stephan Rothshack. I don't know whether they deal internationally. The local time zone is GMT-5

[Mike Banks]

Thanks for that.

Mike

[ArtM]

I may be completely wrong about this, but my impression is that (generally) cruising catamarans are built primarily for comfort, style, and pleasure while trimarans primary feature is speed.

If nice cats were as fast as tris, there would be no tris.

If tris where as luxurious as cats, there would be no cats.

Either that, or the world is missing out on something - not entirely unlikely considering the headwinds the cat has run against in a monohull world, despite clear superiority in several categories.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by ArtM

I may be completely wrong about this, but my impression is that (generally) cruising catamarans are built primarily for comfort, style, and pleasure while trimarans primary feature is speed.

If nice cats were as fast as tris, there would be no tris.

If tris where as luxurious as cats, there would be no cats.

Either that, or the world is missing out on something - not entirely unlikely considering the headwinds the cat has run against in a monohull world, despite clear superiority in several categories.

Yes you're totally wrong

Well, not totally. But when you make broad brush generalizations you're sure to be wrong in many cases.

Both cats and tris do come in cruising models, and both hull configurations can involve compromises either favoring speed or performance.

You'll find Dragonfly tris to be quite luxurious, especially the 1200. My DF-1200 rivals any monohull "yacht" in interior fit and rich finish. You'll find all-out racing tris too, and everything between.

Cruising cats tend toward heavy and slow, because comfort at anchor and durable fixed keels that can take a soft grounding are prized attributes for many, including the charter trade. OTOH, you will find faster cats with daggerboards (e.g. Chris White's Atlantic series) designed for people who are more performance oriented.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

Thank you for both the above answers.

Mr. banks I was thinking the same thing regarding resale value. I could see offering quite a bit less than asking price for a tri, because, as you say, resale is difficult, not to mention getting insurence. I don't want to steal another person's boat, but hey, I'm going to face the same problem when it's my turn to sell it.

What makes you think resale is difficult? I have owned 3 tris in the past 11 years.

The first was bought new, sailed 5 years, and sold within 60 days of putting it on the market. The new boat price for that boat had risen 35% in US dollars during that time, and I sold mine for 10% higher than my original cost.

My second tri was bought very cheaply because it was structurally damaged by storm. I put $30k into repairs and refurb so it looked and functioned like new, and sold it three years later for about $25k more than I put into it. It was on the market about 3 months (and I had several unacceptable offers) before it sold.

My current boat was bought when it was 8 years old at about the same price the seller paid for it when new (again because it was in great condition and due to price increases on the new boats of the same type). The seller had it on the market about 60 days and benefited by a bidding war between myself and another buyer. Last year a 10-year-old sister boat sold in this area for $25k more than I paid 4 years ago for mine.

So the bottom line is: I think tris are niche boats, and there are fewer on the market. Those that are in great condition will sell well, perhaps quicker and at higher prices than other types of boats. Anyone who has sailed a tri will never be as happy with the sailing performance of a monohull or cat.

[Mike Banks]

Well, In Australia the opposite is true. Yes--nothing sails as sweetly as a trimaran and as comfortably--but there the advantages end. I paid under seventy for mine and it was in superb condition with a new engine. I would only get about forty for it now--although I have upgraded the electrics and rigging, and the painting needs to be re-done. I suppose I have spent another ten to twenty on it--but mostly in replacing water heaters and other stuff which could be removed easily and placed on the next tub--which would not be a tri because of the resale, insurance etc.

If my tri was a cat in similar condition, I would get well over $100 thousand. I am often amazed at the prices paid for trimarans in the US--and the only thing I can put it down to is the availability of insurance--and a more relaxed policy of some marinas to allow berthing without it. Tris are suspect here because the design is a bit more critical than a cat. Many have been lost at sea--I think because of the feeling of security in dangerous conditions. Even so, a Liahona survived a severe storm when other vessels were lost--so a well designed tri is quite a safe boatin the hands of a pragmatic sailor, notwithstanding the axes lashed to the underside of the wing decks on mine--

Mike

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

What makes you think resale is difficult? I have owned 3 tris in the past 11 years.

SNIP

While I do not doubt any part of your comment I snipped out I have to point out the economy has changed a great deal over the past 11 years. As many folks have pointed out the boat market is closely aligned with the housing market which is in very bad shape. Just as many houses are selling for less than that did a few years ago, or are "underwater" if not for sale, the same is true for boats.

Another thing to keep in mind is you use to be able to buy a Coke for a nickle, now it costs a dollar; not because the utility of the Coke changed but because of inflation.

One other factor often ignored is the ignorance of some in the boat market. I just spoke to someone last night about a tri for sale. The owner died about three months ago and the family (nine children and three ex wives) has a default "friend of the dead owner" contact the broker put me in contact with. The guy could not tell me how many sails the boat had, who the sail loft was, what they were made of, or what they were made of. He thought the boat had been in a slip in salt water for about a year with no one on board for the last three months, but what worried me most was his comment "how bad could it be for a boat to be in salt water for a year since its last bottom job". He also indicated the owner had only sailed it four times, he normally used the motor when taking it out.

I think the original owner over paid for the boat, it has not been maintained at all since his death a few months ago, and the family is completely ignorant about the boats value, and does realize how much value it has lost and is losing by not at least pulling it out of the salt water and putting it on the hard.

I have posted in other threads that in Florida, where I live, I estimate 50% of the boats I see in yards and marinas are not being used by the owners. Lots of folks who seem to know more than I do claim my 50% is way too low, it is more like 90%. It is no wonder the price of boats is a crap shoot.

[ty.gregory]

Very interesting differences of opinions regarding tris. Lots to think about. Mr. Banks, You confused me with your "axes lashed to the underside of the wing decks on mine--" I'm not quite sure what all that refers to, maybe you will explain?