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Cadence · 23-01-2021, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy M

Why don't you build a dinghy first, including painting the finished boat? You'll be able to use it on your completed big boat, as well as having fun rowing and sailing a much cheaper craft.

Also would possibly make the determination if he wants to build or not.

Kaimana · 23-01-2021, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by sddmack

thanks Tim.....I have #1 in PDF ... I might actually start with something super simple....like a planter box lol. Although I might have to find food grade friendly epoxy if there is such a thing. ....

When you're looking for "food grade" anything, please realize that NO SUCH CERTIFICATION EXISTS. What does exist is called "NSF", for the National Sanitation Foundation's certification; they have certifications for utensils, equipment, and products used in food processing for human consumption.

Did you know that Husky garbage cans are NSF-certified? And lots of other plastic utensils and often things like 5-gallon plastic buckets. An easy way to tell is to look on the bottom; if NSF is printed there, it's food-grade. So you can legally and safely mix up your giant batches of salsa for your local farmer's market in a Husky garbage can.

If there isn't room to print the NSF on the item, you can often find the certification on the manufacturing company's website, or in its MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for the product, in this case epoxy. DON'T LISTEN to salespeople insisting "it's food grade", ask where you can find the NSF certification for the item or product.

If it's a product designed to become part of the food, it gets FDA or USDA certification as "safe for human consumption".

With Warm Aloha, Tim

Libertaria · 28-01-2021, 17:39

@ Roy M, i also have a Searunner 40 in Cali, but have had some issues w insurance recently, as the boat is now over 50 years old. I just joined on here, so im not sure if theres direct message option, but am wondering if you have had any issues or if you would be willing to refer me to someone you deal with. Great discussion btw

Roy M · 28-01-2021, 19:09

Welcome, LIBERTARIA. I'm not clear what it is you are asking. If it is about insurance for an older boat, that will be determined by an independent agent, called a surveyor. They will inspect a boat and communicate to the insurer if there are any issues that might affect the risk of insuring the boat. Having been a shipwright for a very long time, I am well aware of what surveyors look for. Several insurance companies, over the years have paid me to inspect and report as to a vessel's seaworthiness and general condition. So, with my own boat, approaching the age of your own, I have periodically performed my own surveys and conducted maintenance and complete overhauls of systems, in a timely manner, so that an outside and independent surveyor would find my boat a safe risk for insurance providers. It's all about risk, being able to document conditions, and reassure folks who are not familiar with boats.

I built my boat from 1974 to 1978. Since then, I have regularly hauled my boat at intervals of 4 to 5 years, to inspect the hull underbody, repaint, remove the shaft, centerboard and rudder for inspection and replacement of elements that wear out, replace underwater gear such as sonar, speedometer, propeller and throughhull valves that don't last forever. I've replaced the diesel engine (a Volvo MD 2D, 25 hp, weighing 500 pounds) with a Yanmar 3GM30FW, 30 hp, 300 pounds (like a sewing machine, in comparison). The electrical system has evolved over time, as overhauls, not embellishments, from a 6 circuit breaker panel with 300 amp hour battery capacity, to a 21st century system of 16 DC breakers, a 740 amp hour house bank, and seperate 260 aH engine start bank (which drives a powerful electric windlass), and a 2000 watt 120 volt AC inverter with 3 AC circuit breakers, and a state of the art GFIC protection system, a complete overhaul of the galley to provide a custom built propane stove and oven (a hot rod modification of a Force 10 stove into an eye-level oven and counter range), a custom built fridge with Vacuum Insulated Panels for R-50 insulation (and a planned freezer unit). The plumbing systems are being completely overhauled, and will include a water maker. And the deck hardware is in the process of complete replacement, as is the mast, rigging and sails.

In short, as I have tried, over the years to convince my customers, one needs to anticipate a maintenance budget of 10% of the value of the boat to stay current. So, for example, the electronics need complete replacement every decade.

This is an expensive madness. Sure, you can go cheaper. But eventually, your insurance company is going to send their own surveyor out to conduct a rigorous inspection, WHICH YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR, YOURSELF, just to continue to retain your hard to come by end tie in a beautiful, modern home port. Don't forget, you can always cruise somewhere exotic, but you still need to come home to a place where you can rest, repair and restock. I live in San Diego. Probably the finest home port on the planet. To stay here, to return to your reserved end tie and remain hopeful, is something worth the investment. But you have to budget for it.

Sorry, if I got carried away. I am seeing a lot of boats being sent off to the ship breakers during this pandemic period. I decided, when I chose to build a boat that it would outlive me. That meant using the best techniques, most expensive, durable materials (West System epoxy, 5-ply marine plywood, linear polyurethane paint, etc.). And, just for good measure, having the most effective Halon, Foam and Halotron fire protection systems, security systems, and crew protection systems, things that assist in protecting the capital investment. It's nuts, but it makes me happy and hopeful. So, I guess it's worth it. So ends my rant. [emoji4]

Libertaria · 28-01-2021, 19:41

Thanks for detailed response Roy. Sounds like a great boat. When I purchased the boat, my intention was to bring it to San Diego, and I would if I could locate a nice end tie location, but it seems most marinas there are rather full, as it is such a great location as you say. Very cool that you built & have had your boat this long, i have a ton of respect for you. I have only recently purchased my Searunner late in 2020, but it's in great shape, Ive sailed it around 70 miles of Cali coast & it did amazing, & has some of the same features you mention above. Also have a 30 hp Yanmar diesel. I did have a private surveyor inspect the boat & everything checked out good.

So, my question about insurance probably doesnt make sense, as your boat is younger than mine, built in 1969, & you havent had the same issue. From my experience, most boat insurance providers wont even get past the initial inquiry stage once they hear the boat is 50+ years old. Its like something in their system kicks wont let them go any further. Was hoping your boat, or someone else on here with a searunner could share an insurance company contact, as Ive contacted several recently to no avail & dont know what else to do.

Roy M · 28-01-2021, 20:57

I use Allstate, and insure the boat for only $50,000 and full liability. They will require their own survey, but you will have to pay for it. It's worth it to have the boat professionally cleaned, from bilge to cabin top. Shine sells to the folks that are impressed by such. Most surveys don't actually turn things on, or take the boat out for a spin. It's an exercise for the benefit of the agents and secretaries that sail big desks so that they can justify their cushy jobs. Make sure the boat is super clean, remove as much clutter as you possibly can, and make absolutely sure all of the bilge pumps work, the fire extinguishers are current, flares and emergency gear are good, and the boat is SHINY. Fresh hot coffee and freshly baked cinnamon buns are extra credit.

Roy M · 28-01-2021, 20:59

By the way, what is your sail number (mine is 68) and who built it, and where was it launched?

sddmack · 08-02-2021, 16:01

For the home builders - was it a difficult process to register a home built boat? Did you have to carve a VIN somewhere on the boat?

snort · 08-02-2021, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sddmack

For the home builders - was it a difficult process to register a home built boat? Did you have to carve a VIN somewhere on the boat?

Not at all, your state wants money and is only too happy for any excuse to take it from you.

sddmack · 08-02-2021, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by snort

Not at all, your state wants money and is only too happy for any excuse to take it from you.

what about the federal documentation to be a US vessel and be afforded the "protections". I think the SR34 might be under the weight requirements but Im sure they'd let you register anyway.

No plans or inspection required?

Roy M · 08-02-2021, 19:31

For DOCUMENTATION from the Coast Guard, as opposed to STATE REGISTRATION, there is a specific process and paperwork (a Master Builder's certificate). After you file, and all is well with your paperwork (among other things, you MUST Be a U.S. citizen), you will receive a documentation number. I'm not sure of the current details as to placement of the numbers. It used to be that they are carved into a permanent position, "forward of the main weather hatch". Over the years I have seen them applied in the bilge, using cheapo plastic letters. Inspection doesn't seem to be a high priority. For my customers, I have them routed in a hardwood piece, with 3 inch block letters and numbers, in the format "NO. 1234568". Mine had to have the net tonnage included, but that doesn't seem to be required these days. For example, mine is: NO. 591563 NET12. The tonnage is a calculation of volume that the Coasties assigned me, having no relevance to actual volume or weight.

After launching my boat, I installed a holding tank that obscured a portion of the documentation numbers routed into the underwing sheer stringer. Nobody ever made a fuss over it in the years since. Eventually I'll install a new documentation board. Or, maybe not. [emoji4]

Cadence · 09-02-2021, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy M

For DOCUMENTATION from the Coast Guard, as opposed to STATE REGISTRATION, there is a specific process and paperwork (a Master Builder's certificate). After you file, and all is well with your paperwork (among other things, you MUST Be a U.S. citizen), you will receive a documentation number. I'm not sure of the current details as to placement of the numbers. It used to be that they are carved into a permanent position, "forward of the main weather hatch". Over the years I have seen them applied in the bilge, using cheapo plastic letters. Inspection doesn't seem to be a high priority. For my customers, I have them routed in a hardwood piece, with 3 inch block letters and numbers, in the format "NO. 1234568". Mine had to have the net tonnage included, but that doesn't seem to be required these days. For example, mine is: NO. 591563 NET12. The tonnage is a calculation of volume that the Coasties assigned me, having no relevance to actual volume or weight.

After launching my boat, I installed a holding tank that obscured a portion of the documentation numbers routed into the underwing sheer stringer. Nobody ever made a fuss over it in the years since. Eventually I'll install a new documentation board. Or, maybe not. [emoji4]

It would appear Regulations on documentation No.s has changed. I think at one time it had to be chiseled, routed into a permanent member of the vessel such that it could not easily be removed. Made sense. Today it appears a placard can be affixed?

Capt.Timbo · 14-02-2021, 08:14

Goodluck! We have a 2008 40ft Searunner look-a-like (no hull number, last of eight boats by the builder.

Boat US (Geico). It was very expensive, but the boat is considered "custom" and not built on a production line with "Black Book" type Vin.

We were hit by Hurricane Michael and Geico paid about 60k for hull work and new electronics..then they cancelled our policy.

Roy M · 14-02-2021, 08:51

That experience with insurance is awful, but, i guess pretty common. My experience has been to get the minimal liability and put my money savings back into the boat, or savings for a catastrophe. In California, we can't get a slip without making an insurance agency a coinsured party. That seems like a smart idea, having seen so many boats sink or burn at the dock, with some owners "disappearing" when reimbursement to the marina comes due.