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Old 30-05-2020, 07:17   #4426
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The Searunner was definitely not a ketch....I remember that....the mast seemed to be located near the wheel as I recall. It had a light blue hull and was called " Hummer"...it's all coming back to me now..
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Old 30-05-2020, 07:18   #4427
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Looking at the windows, it's a different boat.
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Old 30-05-2020, 07:20   #4428
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The Piver was named " Wizard"...the Cross I don't remember, but Caribbean Soul seems to ring a bell..
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Old 30-05-2020, 07:22   #4429
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

yes, I noticed that too....the windows...bummer
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Old 31-05-2020, 15:09   #4430
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

trimarans are not my forte...not even by a long shot....
but I can recognize quite a few of them...but ....

having said all that...I came across this one today, anchored in the ICW....and I have never seen seen this model...it has portholes in the ama's....I've never seen that...it appeared to be 38'-ish in length...

anyone know what this is ??
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Old 31-05-2020, 15:24   #4431
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Maybe a modified Horstman?
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Old 31-05-2020, 17:20   #4432
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Agree about modified Horstman. Bows, sterns, and flush deck all say Horstman. No visible daggerboards, mast, outboard shrouds all say something else.


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Old 31-05-2020, 18:02   #4433
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I have another shot of it..if this will help...
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Old 31-05-2020, 19:39   #4434
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
the reason I ask is that while I was building my boat, I knew a Piver and Cross tri being built. This would be in north Florida. This would also be in the mid to late 70's. The Piver was built with plywood and fiberglassed over and had that hard chine look about it. The Cross was built in the strip plank method with WEST system epoxy and had rounded hulls. It was beautifully crafted. I know that the Cross was moved to Texas, but after that, I lost track of the boat. I seem to recall it was ketch rigged, I know the Piver was, but a little fuzzy about the Cross's rig, I thought it was a ketch, but it might have been a sloop, I simply don't remember.

I was curious to know if they were the same boat as it looks remarkably as I remember it.? I would love to see more pictures. The Cross I knew was 34', I think, but this too, is just my memory, it may have been longer. I also seem to remember that the transom was extended by a few feet in a sugar scoop fashion to keep the stern out of the water...The name Caribbean Soul also strikes some distant memory.

I could dig up some old photo's from my now faded albums, I may have pictures of it.
Just got back from the boat, I was digging through some old charts, and noticed that I had the entire Caribbean broken up into 30+ charts, all dated 1993. Some had hand written plots and such. So, I would assume sometime after 1993 and before gps took off she was in the Caribbean, especially St. Martin, St kitts, BVI, US Virgin Islands, I now am going to catch up on the thread.


My cross is about to get the main cabin sides replaced, so all the windows will be redone. I wonder over the last 40yrs how many time this might have been done... The previous owners has had hell with deck leaks in the main cabin sides,, Seems like every window is leaking, and has been for awhile... :-) Gonna be an adventure..

Cheers,

James
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:18   #4435
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

..I've done a lot of work with WEST system epoxy...great stuff...

..a trick I've used is to collect sawdust from various wood working projects I'm doing and add it to a container of the WEST epoxy....to make a thick paste....

..this I've smeared over old rotten plywood or big open cracks, etc, to build up the surface to get it back to normal thickness..after first drying out the piece needing repair off course...then a quick sanding and its as good as new..

you have to work quite quickly, before the epoxy goes of, especially so when it's hot outside, so better do to small batches at a time.

I've found mixing WEST in a small container helps to harden it more quickly than a large open container..

If you are working on overhead or side panels, you can place a sheet of oven baking paper over the epoxy and then a piece of plywood cut to size to press against the paper for a smooth finish. The epoxy won't stick to the oven paper and will peel right off. The oven paper has a waxy surface of some kind that prevents the epoxy from sticking to it..
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Old 01-06-2020, 18:01   #4436
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
..I've done a lot of work with WEST system epoxy...great stuff...

Well I have done a lot of stuff, but not with west system, fixed a swing keel crank bed for the mac 25, crack in the side on the mac 25, and a crack in the side of a small canoe. None have leaked... yet. :-) All were fiberglass/ epoxy.


..a trick I've used is to collect sawdust from various wood working projects I'm doing and add it to a container of the WEST epoxy....to make a thick paste....

What type? I typically use pine, fir, cedar, red oak, hickory in my shop, Have dust collector so it would be easy. Would planer and jointer stuff work, or just band saw, and table saw type stuff.. I have the rare, black walnut, zebra wood, cherry, ash, boca, and purple heart projects, also


..this I've smeared over old rotten plywood or big open cracks, etc, to build up the surface to get it back to normal thickness..after first drying out the piece needing repair off course...then a quick sanding and its as good as new..

Is this the "correct safe" way to do this? I don't want to cut corners, and I really don't want the guilt of endangering my families lives.
I have read about drilling cored decks, and filling with west system,, in fact from west system. It would add weight, and the rot spores would not be gone. ---But---- it would save oh so much time!!!!!

SO, SAY 6 MONTH TRIP WHICH WOULD YOU DO? LET'S MAKE IT A POLL (PRACTICE FOR NOVEMBER :-) EVERYONE CHIRP IN PLEASE.

you have to work quite quickly, before the epoxy goes of, especially so when it's hot outside, so better do to small batches at a time.



I've found mixing WEST in a small container helps to harden it more quickly than a large open container..



If you are working on overhead or side panels, you can place a sheet of oven baking paper over the epoxy and then a piece of plywood cut to size to press against the paper for a smooth finish. The epoxy won't stick to the oven paper and will peel right off. The oven paper has a waxy surface of some kind that prevents the epoxy from sticking to it..
YES YES YES, ANY MORE STUFF ON SMOOTHNESS AND LESS SANDING THE B E T T E R ! ! ! !


Gonna copy and past in my other thread https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ns-234745.html

We will vote over there, don't want to thread drift this too much. Thank you everyone...



James
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Old 01-06-2020, 18:06   #4437
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

You can also use 30microgram polyethylene film, the sort of thick, tough plastic industrial plastic bags and wrappings are made from. Sometimes called builders film, usually used under concrete salbs, this stuff is good also.

Important to recognise that once you've 'cleaned out' all the rotten wood, you probably haven't clkeaned out all the microrganisms that caused it, so you need to cut further till you get bright dry hard old wood.

Usually with ply this means cutting out entire sections and replacing with similar. Even if the rot only seems ot be in the surface ply, the mould and rot spores and minute fungi are probably migrated into the surrounding wood. Also, if it's been wet, the spores will have migrated with the water and could have gone a lot further than appears possible to the naked eye.

The sawdust trick is a good one but you need to use wood flour, not just sweepings off the shop floor, as this will have longer fibres in it that will invetitable orient themselves to the surface and provide a wicking path for future water ingress. Cover any such repairs with several coats of epoxy sanded lightly between coats.
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Old 01-06-2020, 18:40   #4438
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Epoxy is not structural by itself. Although some patches can be done to fiberglass cored decks by simply injecting resin in rotten wood, the resulting structure is much weaker than original.

On a lightweight wood/ composite mulithull you have to replace all the bad old wood unless it is just maybe a small non structural piece. But almost all pieces are!

Please be careful with your repairs if you intend to take this boat offshore. About 5-6?? Years ago a bow broke off on an ama of a Searunner off central American.
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Old 01-06-2020, 19:52   #4439
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Epoxy is not structural by itself. Although some patches can be done to fiberglass cored decks by simply injecting resin in rotten wood, the resulting structure is much weaker than original.

On a lightweight wood/ composite mulithull you have to replace all the bad old wood unless it is just maybe a small non structural piece. But almost all pieces are!

Please be careful with your repairs if you intend to take this boat offshore. About 5-6?? Years ago a bow broke off on an ama of a Searunner off central American.
yes and thank-you, off shore is a relative term..

I will not do anything stupid, I have captained and guided for ten years duck hunting.... i.e. go out in the worst weather possible in over loaded boats, at dark and with other stupid people.

Think, () I am not in this video but have been a part of stuff like this, the stuff you do for high paying Clients. :-) This is me here though..... (Lake Livingston Guided Fishing & Duck Hunting – Lake Livingston's Premiere Guide Fishing Service) Click on third video down....

I get it: not sailing the big blue, and no I am not an adrenaline junkie. People pay me to do things like this, and bring them back alive. :-) It's a job...

My lake, (Lake Livingston tx) up to 70ft deep on south end (where I live) and I have been in 6-8 foot waves in 1 sec periods 50 to 60mph winds for long periods of time in a compac 16. Not it wasn't fun, no it's not the ocean, but I have been on navy swcc boats in some pretty damn nasty ocean stuff. Either way, I would hope to never have to use any of this type stuff, because that would mean that I failed miserably in my 14-18hr to 24hr then later to max 48 trip plans at first, during my sea trials from Galveston to Florida. Heck we may never sail her at night with the young family on board, we will see.

Open ended trip, may last a day or up to six months, May put boat up forsale cheap in December, or never, who knows,, currently just an adventure. In trying to repair her.. then move on from there...

I Just want to be damn sure I am not cutting any corners, Like zero.. I have original plans, and plan to rebuild structures after rot is removed back to back to Original spec or better if there is a suggestion for that... also, most affordable place for west system stuff. I have found wholesale marine so far, any better out there? but they don't do bulk, so order bulk epoxy from Fawcett Marine. Can you buy bulk Hardener?

grip fast nails = ring shank correct? Plans call for galv or brass.. I think. Brass would be better correct?


Getting ready to read the how to build a searunner book by jim brown.. This should answer a bunch of questions. Other than hull type stuff. :-)

Thanks everyone,

I hope this adventure will be a fun ride for all...

Hey it may cost a little, but so do astros games, six flags, and other fun stuff.. :-) make it an adventure, keep it safe, and if nobody likes it, move on. :-)

Cheers

James

p.s. Wife asked me into doing some videos of the project stuff, it will be here (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCys..._as=subscriber) Gonna be down and dirty simple cut videos,, nothing fancy for now.. I just simply don't have the time with everything else going on.. No this will not be about money, Unless you want to there is a patron account.. lol, really, just merely for documenting the process for y'all, my far off family, and the next owner.. :-)

Thank you everyone for your opinions!!!!!
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Old 01-06-2020, 20:30   #4440
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The WEST system epoxy is more than just glue. WEST provides a wide variety of additives, fillers, bonding agents, etc, etc, etc. and can be used in many, many different ways, as a glue and a filler and wood protection coating, etc.

One should really get the book set out by the Gougeon Brothers that developed this epoxy back in 1969 or thereabouts.

I would venture to say that anything properly glued together with the WEST system epoxy is likely going to be stuck forever, but I would like to stress " properly. It is a 2 part epoxy and getting the mix ratio right is important. you can buy a variety of pumps that will give the correct proportion of epoxy and hardener.

I have been using this product since the 70's and have NEVER experienced a joint failure or any other type of filler failure. NEVER !! NOT ONCE !!

The key is " properly". WEST has so many products that can be added to their epoxy it requires some learning, a lot of learning. You can pick and choose the additives you may need depending on the type of work you do.

Getting back to the plywood repair, since just trying to build the plywood back to it's original thickness is not a structural connection per se, the use of sawdust as a filler is certainly appropriate.

I don't pick a type of sawdust. Whatever wood I'm working with, the resulting sawdust ends up in a jar.

The sawdust acts as a fiber filler, although, should you wish, you can also add a variety of WEST system fillers to your mix as well.

Once you slather this stuff on your plywood, it is not going to go anywhere. After filling all the holes, voids, etc, and then sanding it, you can cover everything with just a plain mix of WEST, much like you would use paint. This will give the plywood a sealer that will prevent water, moisture, etc, from getting into the wood.

The key is planning and preparation. When WEST hardens, it can harden hard as a rock and trying to sand it smooth will be a chore.

I've always used the baking sheets whenever I wanted to " fill" a space, as I've never had a problem with it, though other products may do an equitable job.

I get the sense you are not as familiar with this product as I am. It requires some learning and on-the-job experience, and you will likely make some mistakes, but that is part of the game. Take your time, read the product brochure, get the book, you can get it online...before you start. WEST is not cheap, so you don't want to waste any in haste.

Since WEST was produced, there are other equitable products on the market now, I'm familiar with some, but my preference is to use WEST. It is a product I know and trust, and no, I'm not a spokesperson for WEST, just very familiar with using it.

As a sideline, I built my first boat from the ground up, Back then, in my innocence, I thought I could whip it out in 9 months. Ha, it took close on 3 years to complete. So be prepared to spend a tad more time than what you might think.
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