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Old 22-09-2017, 13:05   #3976
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

May I ask some Questions for Trimaran and Searunner folk????
When sailing onto the mooring or off the mooring or sailing onto a wharf or some kind of location and then stop.
Do you have just your main up?
Do you have just your foresail up? which foresail?
Or do you have them both up?
And in what winds strength are you talking about?

Mono's are good with just there main up making things simpler.
I found that.....
The Searunner with the mast position central overall boat length when using the main only gives inadequate drive to windward.
Also having just the staysail or the yankee also doesn't give enough drive pointing higher
So with them both up i found that i can manage to get anywhere.
Any thought about this may I ask.
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Old 22-09-2017, 13:12   #3977
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

And another question regarding Specifications for the Searunner
Payload ? does that include crew i suppose it must do
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Old 22-09-2017, 13:38   #3978
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
Designers often have two mast heights. I have seen a SR37 with a mast 3 ft higher than mine on my SR37. It was for a racing and certainly was a quicker boat than mine. That SR37 was actually called "SEARUNNER". Built in NZ and is now in Vau vau Tonga. But because i am not wanting to race Im still happy enough with the boat speed. As soon as the wind is over 15 knots it doesnt really matter anyway.
Cabin tops vary so I think where the centre board case is and where the mast steps onto that plate that would indicate measurement point.
Higher mast makes more sense in lower wind speed.
If you look at bridge clearance and at the stated mast height on the Searunner 31 compared to the 34 and 37, it's pretty obvious that they are NOT measuring the 31...or the 25 from the centerboard trunk, but that they are measuring it from the centerboard trunk in the larger boats. While the boats sit differently in the water presumably, the bridge clearance figures more or less confirm this. The 31 has a bridge clearance of only 4'3" less than the 34, but the mast length from trunk is twice that. That difference corresponds more or less to the distance from the trunk to the cabin top. H.W.
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Old 22-09-2017, 17:19   #3979
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
May I ask some Questions for Trimaran and Searunner folk????
When sailing onto the mooring or off the mooring or sailing onto a wharf or some kind of location and then stop.
Do you have just your main up?
Do you have just your foresail up? which foresail?
Or do you have them both up?
And in what winds strength are you talking about?

Mono's are good with just there main up making things simpler.
I found that.....
The Searunner with the mast position central overall boat length when using the main only gives inadequate drive to windward.
Also having just the staysail or the yankee also doesn't give enough drive pointing higher
So with them both up i found that i can manage to get anywhere.
Any thought about this may I ask.
No, not going to point without headsail but. . . I leave and return to mooring or anchor location with just the main. That way I don't have to take it down prior to return and don't have to bother with putting it up after leaving. Of course I'm not tacking just making sure I'm off the wind coming in or going out. But the main on my 31 will move the boat forward - how close? don't know.

Being solo and lazy I sometimes will leave the main down and just use the staysail and genoa to go windward. In a fresh breeze it goes pretty close without the main. This occurs when I am downwind with just the genoa and have to course up wind. I don't want to take the time to put the main up in such situations. I would do if I thought I was going to maintain that tack a long time.

J
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Old 22-09-2017, 18:59   #3980
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
May I ask some Questions for Trimaran and Searunner folk????
When sailing onto the mooring or off the mooring or sailing onto a wharf or some kind of location and then stop.
Do you have just your main up?
Do you have just your foresail up? which foresail?
Or do you have them both up?
And in what winds strength are you talking about?

Mono's are good with just there main up making things simpler.
I found that.....
The Searunner with the mast position central overall boat length when using the main only gives inadequate drive to windward.
Also having just the staysail or the yankee also doesn't give enough drive pointing higher
So with them both up i found that i can manage to get anywhere.
Any thought about this may I ask.
I think you have a good approach. On the Nicol for close quarters complicated maneuvering it is the genoa only. It doesn't point well or tack with just the main because the mast section tends to stall it but it will point, tack, spin etc... with just the jib. The Furler acts as a gas pedal letting you put out however much you need to maneuver, more to get moving, less to slow, a scrap to crawl etc....

My suggestion would be a genoa on a furler and the staysail on a removable stay if you can justify the cost, if not keep doing what you are. The problem with boomed sails is not being able to dump them all the way when going deep off wind. When leaving an anchor or mooring though I always hoist the main if I can first. If I'm going to drop and anchor I'll roll up the jib, go head to wind, drop the main then the anchor when the boat stops, paying out line as it drifts back.
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Old 23-09-2017, 08:36   #3981
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
And another question regarding Specifications for the Searunner
Payload ? does that include crew i suppose it must do
Yep, crew are payload. Got to bring less to take more.
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Old 23-09-2017, 09:06   #3982
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
Yep, crew are payload. Got to bring less to take more.
The payload figures are absurdly small. 1500 lbs payload for an SR31. Jim cruised with a crew of 4, two adults and two children, for between 500 and 600 pounds of just naked crew. Let's say 600 pounds. On a Searunner 31, that leaves a mere 900 pounds for everything else...... everything needed for 4 people, including clothing, shoes, bedding, safety gear, books and other personal items, food, water, spares, tools, dinghy & oars batteries, fuel for cooking and motoring, pots and pans, plates and cups, silverware, soap & towels, nav equipment, etc,.......... 900 pounds may sound like a lot of weight, but when you chip away at it, it goes very fast. Starting with just the water. Let's say 10 gallons of water per person for a passage.... there goes 90 pounds including the container. Take 10 gallons of motor fuel at 6 pounds per gallon, and we can knock off 65 pounds including the container. A bottle of propane for cooking is about 30 pounds. Clothing, shoes, safety gear, personal items, bedding, books, etc for 4 people could easily take the load well over the 1500 pound payload. For voyaging single handed, the SR31 payload seems minimal to me. With a crew of 4, crossing the Atlantic or Pacific, it would be virtually impossible without being well overloaded or grossly under equipped. H.W.
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Old 23-09-2017, 09:20   #3983
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

It is the facts of life Owly. If you want the plane to takeoff you have to watch the baggage. If you want to carry more weight in a length you need a wider main hull like a cruising Cross or Tristar. If that isn't enough you need a cat or a mono.

I did a lot of sailing with a total of 2 people on a small boat loaded for a month and managed with 1000 pounds of payload. You just have to think about everything. A 31 could hop 4 for a couple weeks but they do get a bit crowded with the split cabins if everybody tries to be in the same one at once. And the crew has to think carry on luggage versus hire the porter with the hand truck. If you need big steamer trunks to come cruise ships should be considered.
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Old 25-09-2017, 08:40   #3984
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Beaching To Work On The Hull With the Searunner's shallow draft and ability to "take the ground", I've been wondering about careening techniques for doing bottom painting, etc. I've never seen anything about doing this, though it would appear to be very doable. The amas and beams are strong enough it would appear, that the entire boat should be able to be rocked up on one ama in an area of high tidal range like the Sea of Cortez, or the Solent, etc. It should also be possible to flood one ama, and roll the boat using an inflatable dinghy full of water attached to a halyard at the mast head, exposing one entire side of the main hull, and one ama in flat calm water like a deep river, but of course another dinghy would be needed to work from. Not all the Searunners have the ama completely isolated from the main hull, and not all are epoxy sealed on the inside. Suppose you are in Kirabiti, the Taumotus, Fiji, Tonga, etc, and you hit a coral head and manage to make it into the inner lagoon of a remote atoll. You have some of that epoxy that can be used on wet surfaces and in water, some tools and plywood. The tidal range is less than a foot. Can you tip the boat over enough to do a repair on the main hull? Maybe you just want to save the cost of a travel lift and yard fees, and decide to do your bottom paint on the east coast of Baja in some remote bay..... Careening was the standard way of repairing or painting the bottom of a ship for centuries. Baja has some amazingly sheltered locations in some incredibly remote areas where one should be able to work undisturbed. Anybody try this sort of thing? H.W.
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Old 25-09-2017, 09:26   #3985
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by owly View Post
Beaching To Work On The Hull With the Searunner's shallow draft and ability to "take the ground", I've been wondering about careening techniques for doing bottom painting, etc. I've never seen anything about doing this, though it would appear to be very doable. The amas and beams are strong enough it would appear, that the entire boat should be able to be rocked up on one ama in an area of high tidal range like the Sea of Cortez, or the Solent, etc. It should also be possible to flood one ama, and roll the boat using an inflatable dinghy full of water attached to a halyard at the mast head, exposing one entire side of the main hull, and one ama in flat calm water like a deep river, but of course another dinghy would be needed to work from. Not all the Searunners have the ama completely isolated from the main hull, and not all are epoxy sealed on the inside. Suppose you are in Kirabiti, the Taumotus, Fiji, Tonga, etc, and you hit a coral head and manage to make it into the inner lagoon of a remote atoll. You have some of that epoxy that can be used on wet surfaces and in water, some tools and plywood. The tidal range is less than a foot. Can you tip the boat over enough to do a repair on the main hull? Maybe you just want to save the cost of a travel lift and yard fees, and decide to do your bottom paint on the east coast of Baja in some remote bay..... Careening was the standard way of repairing or painting the bottom of a ship for centuries. Baja has some amazingly sheltered locations in some incredibly remote areas where one should be able to work undisturbed. Anybody try this sort of thing? H.W.


Not a good way to do a bottom job, imo... at least on far too short a tide... unless you have a dozen natives and a mule. You can, in a pinch, put a 2 X 12 under the keel, and roll it on a series of fence posts (or tree trunks), repeatedly moving the back one to the front, as the natives hold her level, and the mule pulls it way up the beach. Then prop the amas with something, or with halyards off to tree stumps.

This sort of thing used to really be done, and of course, you can not get the most important part, under the keel and up inside the trunk, with bottom paint.

These days, third world places usually have funky railways, and I would only consider the cave man haul out, in a true emergency. Bottom paint is WAY to heavy a thing to carry around on a Searunner, just for the next bottom job.

If you do, btw... the tow rope goes around the aft edge of the keel. My SR 35 actually has a rounded notch for the rope.

For simply scrubbing the bottom, anchored in 8' deep calm water is better than beaching, because snorkeling is easier than bending over and scrubbing... at least to me.

I have beached on the top of an 8' tide, and waited for the tide to lift me off, but would only do boatwork this way, in a serious emergency.
The degree of lean is pretty extreme, at least on hard sand. In mud, the entire keel will disappear!

Also, consider... all modern bottom paint, requires a day to dry before splashing. People cut that length often, but paint peels off often too. [emoji1365]
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Old 25-09-2017, 09:33   #3986
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by owly View Post
Beaching To Work On The Hull With the Searunner's shallow draft and ability to "take the ground", I've been wondering about careening techniques for doing bottom painting, etc. I've never seen anything about doing this, though it would appear to be very doable. The amas and beams are strong enough it would appear, that the entire boat should be able to be rocked up on one ama in an area of high tidal range like the Sea of Cortez, or the Solent, etc. It should also be possible to flood one ama, and roll the boat using an inflatable dinghy full of water attached to a halyard at the mast head, exposing one entire side of the main hull, and one ama in flat calm water like a deep river, but of course another dinghy would be needed to work from. Not all the Searunners have the ama completely isolated from the main hull, and not all are epoxy sealed on the inside. Suppose you are in Kirabiti, the Taumotus, Fiji, Tonga, etc, and you hit a coral head and manage to make it into the inner lagoon of a remote atoll. You have some of that epoxy that can be used on wet surfaces and in water, some tools and plywood. The tidal range is less than a foot. Can you tip the boat over enough to do a repair on the main hull? Maybe you just want to save the cost of a travel lift and yard fees, and decide to do your bottom paint on the east coast of Baja in some remote bay..... Careening was the standard way of repairing or painting the bottom of a ship for centuries. Baja has some amazingly sheltered locations in some incredibly remote areas where one should be able to work undisturbed. Anybody try this sort of thing? H.W.
If I understand you and you are thinking about trying to careen it such that only one ama is supporting the whole boat think again. I would suggest, in a high tidal zone, block the keel fore and aft of the centerboard and let the tide run out. I may take several tides. I feel sure the blocks could be lashed in place with a little bit of thought.
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Old 25-09-2017, 11:57   #3987
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

https://greencoconutrun.com/2017/01/...at-in-ecuador/

I was feeling about for ideas........ other than a travel lift. Many places don't have equipment suited for really wide boats, though probably fewer than once was the case. Here is a photo of a trimaran with a fixed keel careened on a beach. A searunner would be a bit different, lacking the fixed keel. And I just added a second photo. I don't consider the idea of careening at all outrageous. It's something that has been done for thousands of years. The key, I feel is figuring out what the best method for your boat is, and preparing.

H.W.
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Old 25-09-2017, 12:03   #3988
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I was pondering the payload dilemma again on the 31 and of course wider or deeper or both on the main hull would have to be done during a build and is really problematic with how detailed the boats and plans are. Better to just build the next size up. My only solution to a existing hull would be to add a second bottom panel with significant rocker keeping the bow and stern depths the same. This double bottom could be used for tankage as well, the stub keel would still extend beyond it. Something like this could be good for a few hundred pounds more load depending on the area.

The draw backs are loss of top speed because of the reduced prismatic co efficient and a increase in pitching. The bottom profile starts to look like a Piver for those familiar with Art's designs. The amas percentage of total buoyancy will also be reduced because of the increase in total weight when loaded.

I'm not recommending this, just reflecting upon it!
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Old 25-09-2017, 13:15   #3989
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Beaching a searunner is easy.I use to own a 31 and beached her a few times.I would put her sideways to the beach anchor from spinnaker halyard to beach and use sandbags unde amas.Paint what I could and flip her around and have other Ama an the beach.I could dig out the mini keel and paint inside.My buddy was able to grind out inside the mini keel where there was a Crack and dry out enough with heat lamp and do an epoxy glass repair that lasted 5 years until he could haul out.We both would beach our boats next to each other and make a party out of it.I never had any issues with the paint drying enough between tides.I allways used hard paint.My 37 I have also beached but she ways too much to dig out under thr mini keel to paint.30 years ago my horst man 30ft tri I use to glass under waterline a lot as she was a polyester boat and I would get a spot that when the tide dropped enough I would cut the glass open and dry out with a Gen set running in my dingy with a heatlamp.I was able te repair and kick the epoxy off before the tide came back in.And this was with a 4 ft tide.Up north in the Sea of Cortez we have a plastic where 12 ft tides let you careen a mono.I will look for some photos.I have a saildrive in my 37 and I know I could pull it out and I stall another one in a tide no problem if I had to.its extra work for sure but it sure is nice to know you can do it.
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Old 26-09-2017, 07:18   #3990
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hey SeaOtterJim, how does that saildrive work for you?
Saw a 34 with a saildrive down in Napa a few years ago and was intrigued.
What make/model is it, and did you reinforce the hull around the cutout?
Does it stick up above the floorboards in the salon?
I've been noodling on the idea of a hybrid saildrive for my SR31.
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