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Old 05-05-2017, 08:11   #3631
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Re: Trimaran - Split Junk Rig

If you don't like to work on the bows it is really hard to argue with the utility and speed of a furler for the jib. Well worth the money for instant adjustment of sail area.

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Originally Posted by Redreuben View Post
Owly,

It has been done, you might have seen it already but.....

Little Tri Sporting a Split Junk Rig | Small Trimarans
Hey Red, what do you think about the mast section here? I know he needs a longer one but watching it flex just sitting in the driveway makes me wonder if it will hold up to the gusts.
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:40   #3632
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by owly View Post
J

I've read a number of things regarding the slot effect... pro and con. The fact is that the split junk rig works quite well...... for whatever reason. Likely because it contains two cambered sails instead of one, and the camber seems to be where lift is developed. I'm neither pro nor anti slot.......... I am highly in favor of things that are simple and work well.

You mention ease of tacking as being a necessity for where you sail, suggesting that the junk rig lacks ease of tacking??? Can you tack your cutter rig by merely putting the tiller over and pulling in or letting out the sheet (singular) a bit? Junk rigs often are seen tacking in narrow waters where most sailboats resort to motoring, because it is so easy. No traveler, no winching the sheets, no running backstays to deal with, or deck work involving head sail, no setting preventers........ just put put the tiller over, and when the boom crosses over, let out or pull in sheet to adjust the sheet. The issue about pointing applies only to the flat junk rigs, not the cambered rigs which will point every bit as high as a Bermuda rig. On the other hand the junk rig doesn't seem to be able to sail as fast to windward, though reaching it will probably match the Bermuda Rig, and running they will out sail a Bermuda Rig.
It's not my intention to sell anybody else on trying this, but I find it interesting how many inaccurate and / or outdated views folks hold on the junk rig, and in many cases how completely unwilling they seem to be, when it comes to update those views based on the current state of development. As I previously mentioned, it was not so long ago that I held similarly outdated views on multihulls. Realizing that perhaps those views were wrong or outdated, I spent the time to set myself straight. Ultimately realizing that a trimaran was the best choice for me.

Cruising Ashiki: Why bother with a Junk Rig?

Bermudan rig vs Junk rig - Practical Boat Owner


H.W.
I spent many hours with Don Jordan showing me the math of cambered leading edges and poor performance of slots. See Don Jordan | Ocean Brake for a remarkable guy. As chief engineer of P & W I pretty much figured he knew what he was talking about. So I'm not against your position. In fact, coonsidering the cambered sail and what I worked on with Don regarding a cambered roller furling I am in agreement.

And no my 31er will not tack as you mention. In fact in small wind it is necessary to fall off a bit to pick up speed and "sail through" the tack. She will do about half the wind in any wind but requires about 4 knots to get a clean tack, otherwise a jibe to get the deed done.

Except for removing a perfectly good rig so far I really haven't seen any good arguments against your positons. On the contrary it makes a lot of sense.

J
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Old 05-05-2017, 18:21   #3633
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Cav;
At first I thought the whole boat looked a bit flimsy, I'm not a fan of flat tube cross beams, but viewing the sailing vids on YouTube after this video all seems to be well albeit in relatively low winds, if that's what the boat is intended for the
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Old 05-05-2017, 18:22   #3634
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Oops. Then it's fine, I wouldn't fancy it in a Freo sea breeze with the Indian Ocean fetch though !
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Old 05-05-2017, 19:45   #3635
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The gusts can catch up with you, so can your enthusiasm so it's best to have a margin.

As to the tacking question if I had a self tacking jib I wouldn't need to touch a sheet. The Nicol will go around as long as it is moving but like Catsketcher if I wait too long to get the jib in the main will bring it into irons if I don't release it. For single sail sailing the jib is the way to go as it will still tack well and can be furled in a instant.
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Old 06-05-2017, 00:03   #3636
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi everyone.
Just spent the last 5 days reading every post of this massive 243 page thread. I've gleamed some fantastic info from everyone on top of what I had already learned reading Jim's two books "The case for the cruising trimaran" and "Among the multihulls 1&2" as well as Mark's book on Anchoring. I'm looking to get myself a large tri when I get back home in December and so far have been seriously considering the Searunners for their well thought out design and good performance. I plan to be doing the South Pacific and taking my dive gear along.
I have been looking at some older ex race boats and noticed a huge variety in whats available and unfortunately they don't do well with cargo or a good internal fitout. Ideally I will be planning on doing a years sailing before returning to Antarctica for another years work and so on. I like the 40ft Searunner though they seem rare.

I also have been looking at a large Horstman Tristar. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on them?
They look like they have a lot of windage but at that size(50ft) I am not sure if that is a major disadvantage.

Cheers,
Paul
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:26   #3637
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jimske,

Ocean Brake series drogue survival device for multihulls.

A very big thank you, sir, I'd not heard of that before. It looks better than a parachute anchor in several ways.
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:29   #3638
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Also include the Marple's designed Constant Camber series, which are essentially modernized Searunners.

It doesn't sound like you'll be expecting a large crew, so I am not sure why you would want more than a 40' boat.
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:03   #3639
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

My opinion and its probably biased because i have a 37ft Searunner.
I have been on a couple of Horsman Tri's and they seem at first roomy and seem to have an excess of room but i believe the room isnt utilised or user friendly like the Searunner. the cockpit seems smaller and narrow though wider giving less usable space. Laying down you would fall off the bunk seat in the cockpit when pitching to windward. The deck is a huge flat area but there isnt the sit behind the cabin like the Searunner the little spots you can get out of the wind like the Searunner. On deck of the Searunner for myself is far more user friendly and easier to brace against than the Horsetman. The bunks inside the two Horsetman i got to see had 4 double bunks.
The same can be with the Searunner 37. But in the Searunner you can actually sit up on the bunk read a book look at your tablet. But the Horsetman tri the ceiling was too low and you had to crawl into them and only lay.
The outside arma's are a walk through getting to the double bunks that are the same size as the Searunner. OK for getting to the other side of the bunk and not climbing over the person in the bunk to get to your spot but with the Searunner you arma's can be used to store so much more stuff. I have many empty plastic 4 litre bottles tied together at both ends for emergency capsize and if i need more water while on the coast i can carry excess easily moved and collected. Meaning the Searunner arma's are another separate hull to the main hull and that is a huge safety factor. Also they can be used for many other reasons eg a tool work shop.
I think the Horstman sails good but i have my suspicions that they don't go to windward as well as the Searunner. I believe pointing high like a keeler is one of the Searunners best attributes. The layout of the Searunner is so good. clever because you have 2 cabins fore and aft and they can be connected with a smart dodger. If you have a small diesel heater you flow air from the bow and the stern meeting midships in the cockpit. The cockpit has many attributes dry safe another 2 bunks and elevated to give you a higher view of the surrounding area. All your reefing sheeting and lookout positions can all be done inside the cockpit. Because the mast is part of the the cockpit unlike the Horstman. The idea of creating more room inside the Horsetman isnt valid enough or user friendly enough to warrent its design compared to the Searunner. I think they are heavier boats too and harder to go about. Because there is less rocker in the hull design. Sailing around the globe going to far away places I would rather be on a Searunner. but that is possible a biased opinion.
If you can find a good 40 ft Searunner they are gold. I think "Sea Skate" is the best one i have heard about
Sea_Skate
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Old 06-05-2017, 04:47   #3640
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafarer24 View Post
Also include the Marple's designed Constant Camber series, which are essentially modernized Searunners.

It doesn't sound like you'll be expecting a large crew, so I am not sure why you would want more than a 40' boat.
I really don't want a boat larger than 40' but I want to get out and go so as long as it is in good condition and can carry my cargo load it may have to do. Honestly would prefer a Searunner 40' but I'll see what is around when I get back. I thought of going the route of building one myself but even working full time on it means that it might take 2 years to build with help from my friends but that translates to more like 4+ with me being down south for 1 1/2 years and only home for 1 year at a time.

My crew size may go largely up and down depending on who tags along for certain portions of dive trips. Planning wise I am going to be carrying quite a bit of gear and provisions to get to some difficult to access areas for diving supplies like Chuuk Lagoon and the Solomon Islands. I will also be living on it full time. I have grown up sailing and have experience on a range of boats from mono's to cats of 10' to 40 ' so I'm not worried about the sailing side, just don't want to get a boat that you can't live on.

Thanks for all the advice, pretty much what I was thinking after reading all this fantastic info but this thread has pretty much been 95% on Searunners only so I just thought I'd ask opinions.

Thanks All
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Old 06-05-2017, 04:53   #3641
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by rossad View Post
My opinion and its probably biased because i have a 37ft Searunner.
I have been on a couple of Horsman Tri's and they seem at first roomy and seem to have an excess of room but i believe the room isnt utilised or user friendly like the Searunner. the cockpit seems smaller and narrow though wider giving less usable space. Laying down you would fall off the bunk seat in the cockpit when pitching to windward. The deck is a huge flat area but there isnt the sit behind the cabin like the Searunner the little spots you can get out of the wind like the Searunner. On deck of the Searunner for myself is far more user friendly and easier to brace against than the Horsetman. The bunks inside the two Horsetman i got to see had 4 double bunks.
The same can be with the Searunner 37. But in the Searunner you can actually sit up on the bunk read a book look at your tablet. But the Horsetman tri the ceiling was too low and you had to crawl into them and only lay.
The outside arma's are a walk through getting to the double bunks that are the same size as the Searunner. OK for getting to the other side of the bunk and not climbing over the person in the bunk to get to your spot but with the Searunner you arma's can be used to store so much more stuff. I have many empty plastic 4 litre bottles tied together at both ends for emergency capsize and if i need more water while on the coast i can carry excess easily moved and collected. Meaning the Searunner arma's are another separate hull to the main hull and that is a huge safety factor. Also they can be used for many other reasons eg a tool work shop.
I think the Horstman sails good but i have my suspicions that they don't go to windward as well as the Searunner. I believe pointing high like a keeler is one of the Searunners best attributes. The layout of the Searunner is so good. clever because you have 2 cabins fore and aft and they can be connected with a smart dodger. If you have a small diesel heater you flow air from the bow and the stern meeting midships in the cockpit. The cockpit has many attributes dry safe another 2 bunks and elevated to give you a higher view of the surrounding area. All your reefing sheeting and lookout positions can all be done inside the cockpit. Because the mast is part of the the cockpit unlike the Horstman. The idea of creating more room inside the Horsetman isnt valid enough or user friendly enough to warrent its design compared to the Searunner. I think they are heavier boats too and harder to go about. Because there is less rocker in the hull design. Sailing around the globe going to far away places I would rather be on a Searunner. but that is possible a biased opinion.
If you can find a good 40 ft Searunner they are gold. I think "Sea Skate" is the best one i have heard about
Sea_Skate
Thanks Ross.
I live on the south eastern coast of Australia so we don't really get cold enough to require heaters, also most of my sailing will hopefully be in the tropics/sub tropics so it should be warm. And plus after a year and a bit down here where currently we have -20 degrees each day and getting colder everything will feel hot to me

I had a look at some pics of the Horstmans and I definately agree that they have miles of unused or poorly used space. I suppose that could be modified with a lot of composites to keep the weight down but the Searunner is just such a better concieved design.

Thanks,
Paul
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:30   #3642
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

You should put Cross tris on your list to, they are great cruisers. Add up your payload, dive tanks are heavy and start looking from there. This is one place where the fuller hulls of the Cross and Tristar pay off. A sleeker hull won't sail as well if it is overloaded. There was a nice SR40 for sale up here a few years ago with a well documented build, so they are out there but there aren't many of them.
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Old 06-05-2017, 10:38   #3643
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The Constant Camber boats are essentially Searunners with a modernized construction technique. They have the same layout and features.
John Marples worked for Jim Brown, and collaborated with him on these designs.
In The Case for the Cruising Trimaran, Jim talks about the 34 being his best, safest design, by incorporating the lessons learned from all of the others. All of the CC designs have these features as well.

They are also listed on the Searunner website.
http://www.searunner.com/index.php/d...?catid=0&id=31

Here is a video of a CC40:
https://youtu.be/GvFB8xH03ic

Here is a video review of a CC35 by Jim Brown:
https://youtu.be/Q-Wemfa9Q20
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Old 06-05-2017, 12:02   #3644
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

These people *just* listed their Cross 46 in the DR for sale for $59k

http://ohsailyes.com/2017/05/for-sal...m-oh-sail-yes/
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Old 06-05-2017, 13:26   #3645
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Paul,

Things might have changed but I believe that Leon Bart had his CC-37 FC for sale. It is one of my favorite designs in the CC line. John Marples designed her strictly as a cruising boat for two people. It turned out to be a fast and seaworthy boat. Leon won the OSTAR with that boat. Which is no small feat. Houd van Hout is her name.

Not sure if it still for sale or not. If so it would be located in the Netherlands.

Regardless there is a good bit on line about that particular boat. It is worth researching and having a look.

Cheers.
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