Transitioning from Mono to Multi Sailing

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Sail a beach cat for a few years, in ALL conditions. There is no proper substitute.

FWIW, I don't think the original Hobies are very good analogs of modern cruising cats. I suspect something kind of heavy and floaty like a Hobie Wave might be closer. For hoots and hollers an F18 or a Tornado are hard to beat but also are probably a bit under volume and over canvased to be great analogs of the bigger boats. Of course, they are their own reward to sail and experience is always a good thing. But, IME, dinghy sailors pick up beach cat sailing very fast so I still feel that the skills transfer. Just for fun here's a video of a guy claiming to have no previous multi experience sailing a Seacart 30:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-GlUQLvJJw

Tom

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by tsmwebb

FWIW, I don't think the original Hobies are very good analogs of modern cruising cats. I suspect something kind of heavy and floaty like a Hobie Wave might be closer. For hoots and hollers an F18 or a Tornado are hard to beat but also are probably a bit under volume and over canvased to be great analogs of the bigger boats. Of course, they are their own reward to sail and experience is always a good thing. But, IME, dinghy sailors pick up beach cat sailing very fast so I still feel that the skills transfer. Just for fun here's a video of a guy claiming to have no previous multi experience sailing a Seacart 30:

Tom

I sailed Prindles and Nacras, and yes, they are not analogs. They are good teachers.

The guy with the Seacart is not displaying good seamanship. Certainly any good cat sailor, or any good sailor, can fly a hull; generally, on a large cat, it only shows him to be a fool.

Pitchpoling is for amateurs? Watch some Extreme 40 or Olympic footage. If there is enough wind, it is a simple result of physics and even top sailors go occasionally and sometimes frequently. If you haven't pitchpoled a beach cat, you have not yet raced in enough wind. On reach it can always be avoided, but going deep, it is some times a VERY real threat.

[YOGAO]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I sailed Prindles and Nacras, and yes, they are not analogs. They are good teachers.

The guy with the Seacart is not displaying good seamanship. Certainly any good cat sailor, or any good sailor, can fly a hull; generally, on a large cat, it only shows him to be a fool.

Pitchpoling is for amateurs? Watch some Extreme 40 or Olympic footage. If there is enough wind, it is a simple result of physics and even top sailors go occasionally and sometimes frequently. If you haven't pitchpoled a beach cat, you have not yet raced in enough wind. On reach it can always be avoided, but going deep, it is some times a VERY real threat.

But seriously, how does that translate to sailing a cruising cat?

I have yet to experience the same sensations, relative conditions, etc in our MC41, that I experienced in our Hobie 16.

Fair Winds,
Mike

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Pitchpoling is for amateurs? Watch some Extreme 40 or Olympic footage. If there is enough wind, it is a simple result of physics and even top sailors go occasionally and sometimes frequently. If you haven't pitchpoled a beach cat, you have not yet raced in enough wind. On reach it can always be avoided, but going deep, it is some times a VERY real threat.

I've seen the footage and as you just pointed out, they OCCASIONALLY do it. Your also comparing sponsored sailing team racing to "beach cat sailing". They are not the same. To me, burying both hulls and pitching directly forward, placing that much stress on your boat, is either stupid or amateurish. But, to each their own. If you enjoy that, do it. I found it easy enough to avoid. My point was that I absolutely don't want to do that with my cruising cat and it therefore makes me pucker.

I always liked Nacra's and my sailing buddy had a Prindle 18. Both nice cats. I always enjoyed watching them chase me on my Miracle

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I've seen the footage and as you just pointed out, they OCCASIONALLY do it. Your also comparing sponsored sailing team racing to "beach cat sailing". They are not the same. To me, burying both hulls and pitching directly forward, placing that much stress on your boat, is either stupid or amateurish. But, to each their own. If you enjoy that, do it. I found it easy enough to avoid. My point was that I absolutely don't want to do that with my cruising cat and it therefore makes me pucker.

I always liked Nacra's and my sailing buddy had a Prindle 18. Both nice cats. I always enjoyed watching them chase me on my Miracle

And I hope to NEVER to see conditions anything like that in my cruising cat, but they are CERTAINLY POSSIBLE. Big waves. A 75 knot microburst. And so this is why we pucker and reef! When the bow wants to "swim" or the back feels light, we react early.

There are 3 ways a beach cat goes over: a capsize to the side (generally very avoidable), a pitch-pole over the front (requires VERY big wind or steep waves), and the combination, where a bow buries, the boat slows, and she goes to the side. The last is really only avoided by slowing down early (and sometimes by bearing off sharply, often discussed), and is sort of equivalent to broaching a mono-hull. It can also happen when the rudders overload and spinning out. This may be the most important case to learn about. To know when bearing off will be enough, and when it may not (micro burst).

[svstrider]

Originally Posted by Dragon701

On the other hand, as noted elsewhere, you don’t get the warning or safety factor provided by heeling as the wind increases. We found that sailing “by the numbers” with a good dose of anticipation guided by experience worked for us. We operated referring ops that are 22 feet apart, you can turn the boat on a dime – just watch your drift as Tom suggested in his post.

My cat has significant windage, I find that if both dagger boards are dropped half way, it drastically reduces sideways drift while not affecting turning radius too much. I have forgotten this a couple of times and this has led to some VERY scary moments in confined marinas. A good reason to avoid them
(marinas & scary moments)