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13-11-2016, 06:46
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 98
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
Go for it Jarsy.
I'm about to do the same.
And all the obvious parameters about me will get me rubbished on here :-))
I'm far too old, and the boat is way too big for a start.
There are however some nuggets of sense from everyone here.
My approach is:-
Think it through,
where ever possible do it the easy way. Sailing is wonderful in the warm and a force 5. At night, raining and force 9 is not fun unless you need to prove something to your self, and it's still not fun.
Any boat can be set up to be sailed single handed, I've always set my boats up like that simply because some of the time the "crew" didn't know a sheet from a pillow slip.
Remember, if it can go wrong it will go wrong, it's up to you to manage, prepare and cope when it does. That is one of the big achievements of it, and being able to do that is the hard part.
Good luck
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13-11-2016, 06:48
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
Much as I am in favour of kids doing things with the whole family, I would be very careful advising anyone to take their very young children onto any extended trip (sailing, or otherwise).
Kids are not potted plants that you can carry around at adults' wish. Kids are plants that grow in the social soil of their friendsips, locations and pets. I am not 100% sure it is a good advice to drag them around just because their parent has a vision of chasing their (the parent's not the kids') vision of happiness.
My own proof is: we moved to another village when I was about 5. I am somewhat older now but I still recall the pain of that move. No, I never got asked any question on what I wanted. And I am not sure I could reasonably answer such a question when I was 5. But I understand today that it was my parents' life that was being lived then, not mine.
My secondhand proof is: by observing and talking with kids on boats I find maybe 25% of them utterly happy, maybe 25% quite indifferent and around 50% either miserable or else utterly unhappy with the facts. How come their parents do not see this is beyond me. Perhaps they never look. Perhaps they rationalise their selfish choices. We all do.
To wrap it up, I think it takes a very keen observant father and mother to tell if their kids will benefit or lose in the deal. And I think it takes endless work and patience and very coherent plan to make the voyage an adventure for the kids. They will not go to the bar or read a book in the cockpit while sipping their cola. They are not that old yet.
Many kids are very lively, very active researchers of their world. Their world is their places, their friends and their pets and their imagery. Not yours. Locking a kid in a boat for extended periods is depriving them of the very natural thing a human may need at this point of their lives. Maybe one day such practices will be simply banned by wise social regulators.
Interestingly, it was CF that turned my attention to these facts. As I started asking, reading and thinking, I discovered the myth of a happy cruising kid is just that. 25% true. Too bad if you are a kid of cruising parents and fall in the remaining 75%.
Cheers,
b.
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13-11-2016, 07:07
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Summerstown Ontario Canada
Posts: 457
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarsy
do you think I would be able to run a 46 ft trimaran by myself with little to no help? I just have no idea what I am getting into.
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I have handled a 41 foot Piver design trimaran by myself. It was a lot of work and I would have made numerous changes to the tri to make things more manageable from the cockpit. Doable... coming along side when docking takes a little more experience. I did this a few times and was very lucky or experienced... although at times I know I was risking it. Experience makes it "close" to perfect.
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13-11-2016, 11:49
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,916
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
Much as I am in favour of kids doing things with the whole family, I would be very careful advising anyone to take their very young children onto any extended trip (sailing, or otherwise).
Kids are not potted plants that you can carry around at adults' wish. Kids are plants that grow in the social soil of their friendsips, locations and pets. I am not 100% sure it is a good advice to drag them around just because their parent has a vision of chasing their (the parent's not the kids') vision of happiness.
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It depends...
About 5 years ago We did what the OP plans to do.
We Caught the cruising bug, bought a cat and did a one year trip with the kids before they had to go to school. Time from stupid idea to casting off was about a year. We started in the med and finished in the Caribbean.
Our kids did very well. They had an excellent time, just like we parents. Of course we had a ton of toys, water toys, games, etc with us and tried to find other cruising kids.
They adjusted to the boat life within two or three days. They accepted the rules and the daily schedules. They were just happy kids.
After about 8 or 9 months when we started talking about selling the boat and returning home they also started to talk more and more about toys left behind, our home, favorite dishes at home and of course their friends. They were not unhappy about our situation but just equally happy about their return and reunion. Integration with school and kindergarten was uneventful after the year.
Give years later They still love cruising and love the idea doing another long trip.
We met a few kids under way, and all in that pre school age were doing absolutely well. Kids in that age adjust to about anything, as long as you take care of their needs.
Young kids are like plants that you can place into any fertile soil and they will do well.
Older kids are a different story. We met a few who seemed not too happy, these were the ones that were too old when they started cruising and already engaged in their own land based social life.
To the OP: the overall idea of cruising requires that your wife fully supports this idea, otherwise forget it now. you need to be a self starter that can learn quickly, and not be technically handicapped.
Sailing isn't a mystical art. Boat maintenance is much harder.
However i know nothing about the weather on the route you are planning to take. Personally I would take the kids only in warm climates. We and cold makes it miserable within a few days. If that means starting in Florida out the Caribbean so do it.
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13-11-2016, 14:15
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#50
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,135
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLOI
These are mates that Ive done a few post race deliveries home from Hobart with, so windows and time are understood by all. If weather and schedules line up it'd work, if not, no one would get stressed. Not leaving, stopping at Gippsland lakes, stopping at JB etc. will all be quite viable outcomes
I have noticed that on OPBs my attitude to crossing the strait was "its only 30 knots, lets go". Now that I pay the bills its more like "its gusting to 25 in the bay, lets sit and wait a while".
Mike
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Mike, that sounds doable to me. If your mates are experienced "deliverers" they'll do fine and so will you if you decide to go that route.
And your latter observation... yep, that's a proper cruiser attitude! And especially if you, as we do, only carry 3d party insurance. And it isn't just potential costs, for once away from yachting centers, replacement of broken or damaged gear is often time consuming, frustrating and destructive to cruising plans.
I think you and your family will do well!
JIm
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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14-11-2016, 00:24
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
It is like an onion. So many layers of skin. Each layer of skin that you peel back represents essential knowledge. It takes all of your time, energy, and money to develop those skills necessary to survive at sea.
Here is the bottle neck for married men with children. When u go off shore u r putting your family at risk. If u r a competent skipper on a well found boat the risk is mitigated. I would think that your wife has to be 100 % behind this dream. In fact, I would say she should want it as bad as u do. When I was in my mid 30's I had 3 children and wanted to sell everything and sail around the world. My wife looked me straight in the eye and I soon learned it was divorce or forget this foolish idea. Many people on this forum can tell u of many couples who split up over sailing dreams. Generally speaking... women don't have that wanderlust that many men do. Women like Ann Cate, Sailor Chic, and Seahag are pretty scarce.
Have you and your wife watch some of the YouTube stuff about sailing couples.
Do you have the finances to handle a couple years off of the hampered wheel? What impact will it have on your children's future and your overall financial fitness to retire when you get older?
A large trimaran is like any boat... extremely expensive to maintain and a handful to handle.
Okay... take it slow and really dig into what is involved in owning a boat. That knowledge takes time to accumulate. The most important thing is your family and their welfare. That is our primary duty as a father. If you have the money... if your wife says "let's do it... u r not shooting your self in the foot financially... then go for it.
Like Ann said, if mama ain't happy .....
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14-11-2016, 00:38
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
An addendum, man I spent my whole life working to raise my children and put them through school. Never lost the desire for sailing. Crewed on race boats in "beer can" racing on Wednesday nights. Put together enough skills to charter boats. Now I am nearing retirement age and financially I am okay. But I can look myself in the mirror and know that as bitter as that pill was to swallow about forsaking my dreams to uproot my family ( for me anyways) I did the right thing for my kids.
It really is a very touchy subject. Many men in here can tell you it can destroy married life very easily if she is not 100 % behind it.
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14-11-2016, 01:12
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 867
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
Take the kids
My advice would be not to rush - and take the kids out of school.
My wife and I cruised with our boys for about 5 years. At first when our first son was a baby and later when our two boys were 6 and 7. Sailing was one of the highlights of our lives, drifting out of Hill inlet on pool noodles, playing on a hundred beaches, watching the boys become voracious readers, watching them become better friends, seeing them grow into highly mature and responsible yet playful kids.
I teach at school - I have been a teacher for about 15 years and I would never caution anyone about the negative social effects of sailing with young kids - I would think that it gets harder when they get to their teens - they want to bond more with others but you will probably find that your kids get to know you properly, really well, sometimes maybe too well. My kids have seen me worried, and tense but they also have seen more of me than most kids ever see of their dad. My two sons are fabulous human beings and the time we spent as a family was part of the rock that is the foundation of our family.
One son was unhappy at school - he was ahead of the others (just got his Physics honours degree last year) but blossomed in the more flexible teaching of home schooling, the other was fine at school and on the boat. So there is no reason not to go because of social or educational reasons - on both your kids can easily end up far better off because of cruising. I would say that you would have a much better time just blowing around the Caribbean. Do short miles and lots of beach stops, if you see a kid boat you like, drift along with them for a while. Don't try for miles when the kids will love the stops, playing in the dinghy, jumping off the bows, collecting shells and rocks, paddling their body boards or whatever. The most fun for them is when you stop so sail the Caribbean leisurely rather than do an ocean.
Remember - you won't find paradise anywhere. You have to bring it with you. Sailing off to a coral atoll can be great but it can also be frightening when the wind blows up and the sun goes down. Get more experience, learn to sail, get competent so that you can look into your kids eyes and let them know that they will be safe. For me that was the hardest thing. Even though I have sailed since I was a boy I found it very hard to take my kids on long offshore trips. We played along Australia's east coast so that I could always say "Not far to nice water".
I would recommend a cat. Our sons basically had one hull and we had the other - the bridgedeck was the DMZ. They could do Lego models on the floor and do card houses as well. Don't get a pristine boat - get a slightly shabby or well used one. The kids will be happier if they can make the boat their home too - posters, charts, art, shell collections etc.
Get some lessons and do some sailing with the local club. You should know your stuff because you can scare your kids if you do something dumb. Then again they can be very brave - we were dragging anchor in a huge thunderstorm - I couldn't get the anchor up to re-anchor with the wind blowing above 50 knots, I put the lifejackets on the boys and calmly told them that they would be fine if we hit the mangroves but that the boat could be damaged. We would go to the other hull until I said we could safely get off the boat and onto the shore. They were wide eyed but very brave. They told stories to each other inside whilst Deb and I did everything we could and when the wind eased back to just gale force we could point the boat into the wind and pull the anchor up and re-anchor. The boys helped us too by being so brave - we still talk about stories like that one 15 years later.
Don't listen to the doubters or the people who say that school is so important. Parents are the most important people involved in early child education so read to them and keep them safe. It will be a gift.
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14-11-2016, 01:29
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#54
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,135
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
Katsketcher, that's a great post! And it reflects the kind of cruising families that we have interacted with for years in our travels. Thanks for the good info and the experienced tales.
OP, pay attention to this chap!
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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14-11-2016, 01:34
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 212
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
I have seen many many sailing kids grow up as champions at all in life, thoughtful and well rounded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarsy
I am from a land locked province in Canada, I had done a whitsundays sailing charter in Australia when I was in my twenties and fell in love but that was as far as it went. Since then I have settled down with a wife and two kids under five but just recently for whatever reason have a desire to buy a liveaboard boat and start sailing before my kids need to be in school. My plan would be to sail from Vancouver island to the Carribean and make a ton of stops along the way. Am I totally ridiculous to think this is possible to take a sailing course and wing it the rest of the way?
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14-11-2016, 02:11
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Boat: Condor Trimaran 30 foot
Posts: 1,501
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
I happen to agree with every poster that it would be a great thing for children. Families that play together stay together sort of thing. But before any of that cum-by- ah stuff can happen.... mama must want it or u r heading for shipwreck on a rocky lee shore.
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14-11-2016, 02:30
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 867
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
One thing I forgot to mention was that your kids will have access to the most amazing experiences - meeting people from other countries, learning new languages, meeting people from, different social groups, seeing diverse landscapes and understanding the true nature of our planet. This is so much better than we can provide at school.
Or you could send them to school and sit in my class and I will show them videos of the places and people you could visit. I will try to give them some of my time, if there are 30 in my class and I have an 80 minute double lesson then your child could get a whole 2.5 minutes of personal instruction - as long as I don't have to do anything else. Or your kid could get the most vivid and wonderful real life experience combined with personalised instruction from you and your wife, hours of it as you read together under autopilot or look through books to work out fish species or the life cycle of a clown fish. The experiences cruising children can get are very intense - so much more so than school. Plus they get away from the vacuous and sometimes frightening aspects of social media - the incessant nature of Facebook can cause huge anxiety and even bullying that never lets up - unless you get out of range of cell phones.
Actually as an experienced educator who has dealt with many hundreds of children from a diverse range of backgrounds I would think that ,rather than society trying to limit extra curricular family trips ,any society that is caring for children would recommend families take extended periods of time away as a unit - Winnebago, boat, dog sled, camping trip. A strong family unit usually makes mature and resilient kids.
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14-11-2016, 13:53
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#58
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,400
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
catsketcher,
What a couple of great posts!! I hope to read more from you in the future. If it isn't too late, welcome aboard, mate.
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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14-11-2016, 14:25
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#59
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,352
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
second that!! Well written.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
Katsketcher, that's a great post! And it reflects the kind of cruising families that we have interacted with for years in our travels. Thanks for the good info and the experienced tales.
OP, pay attention to this chap!
Jim
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15-11-2016, 04:09
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 867
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Re: To live a dream? No experience sailing
Thanks for the feedback
Alan - I get the bit about being kind to your partner. It is so important.
I didn't take my wife (then girlfriend) offshore until it was so calm my 31ft racing tri only averaged 4 knots the whole day. A lovely calm day but she liked it!
Before that I sailed the boat and she caught the bus. I really didn't want to make her worried until she really liked it. In the end she did and I was happy but I tried really hard to make the trip a good one.
For me I think that was pretty easy. I am a sailing nut and have won championships in Lasers and other classes, but cruising was what I really wanted to do. Any skill was to be used in making the trip fun. In fact I reckon if you come out on my boat I can almost guarantee you a good time. I have a few rules to go by.
Be flexible - we go where the wind says, we go to a different spot for lunch, or head the other way of conditions warrant. A schedule is for when I am at work.
Everything is my fault - this is actually emancipating. As the skipper EVERYTHING is my fault. Anchor drags, no shouting - that's me, main halyard gets caught - my bad we'll do it again. If you are new and stuffed up with an overide the ONLY reason is because I didn't explain it properly. It is never the fault of the newby so learn to sail and get responsible and then take the responsibility. The skipper is always responsible for what happens when sailing. If your wife loves it as much as you share the load, if not see next point
You are not the boss of everything. Give your partner as much control as possible over what they want. Then accept it. Don't always be boss of the inside, the stores, the money, the engine, the winch stripping, whatever your partner wants - great. They are the boss of that and you are just the cabin boy.
Veto - Deborah has a simple veto over the kite/reacher and reefing. If she wants it down then it comes down. Usually we are hitting 12 -15 knots when she says "Can we have it down" and down it comes. No conversation and no grimaces. Yes dear. Happy me. We don't go that slow with the extras down when it blows up anyway.
No shouting - (anchoring) Often people get grumpy when anchoring. One person is up the front and the other down the back with an engine running. They start shouting to be heard and it can turn into shouting with feeling. We talk about anchoring together in the cockpit and then I go to the front and we use agreed upon hand signals. No talking needed and no shouting. If we need to re-anchor then I get some extra exercise on our manual winch. No worries.
Reduce the worry by always taking the low stress option. Yelling is what poor sailors do, the best sailors don't yell. Go on a fab race boat and they talk - but rarely shout - its not fast on the racecourse and it is a fast way to lose your partner.
Get out on a boat at your local club and start sailing. It is the first step on the road to your dream.
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