This Thing is a Monster...but I Like it

[Teleman]

Beautiful interior and deck finish.
A great boat for people who never go sailing.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by GILow

I would have thought she needed a LOT less ballast than us poor old monohull drivers?

Matt

Ok, I can't recall the ballast we have. I was forgetting about that.

[DavidLGCrawford]

Originally Posted by Teleman

Beautiful interior and deck finish.
A great boat for people who never go sailing.

Arghh... just as I am starting to feel comfortable with the idea of this boat.

We are looking for a large catamaran (or tri), that can be sailed single handed. This boat has crossed the Atlantic 12 times, two of them single handed. My wife is disabled so she would not be able to provide alot of help, it would be primarily me and my 13 year old son.

Our plan is to cruise the Caribbean and visit most of the islands. We may take on charters from time to time, for which this boat would be very attractive.

This boat is in our price range, but we would not be able to constantly feed it with fuel. It must be able to sail from island to island. We are in no rush, other than would prefer to sail mostly during the day and arrive at our next port of call before dusk.

[Sand crab]

David, As I said before this tri has been for sale for years so there must be a reason and that is nobody wants a big, heavy, slow, steel tri. You just don't see cats or tris made out of steel because it is so heavy. However maybe you could get it for a major discount which would offset the fuel expense. And a big discount is needed because you aren't ever going to sell that boat for $200K no matter how well made it is.
You don't say where you are or where you would like your boat to be full time but did you notice this is a 220 volt boat? If you are from the US it will be an expensive PIA converting to 110v.
There are many other boats that you can single hand like Manta and many FPs for instance. FWIW just about any boat can be made more user friendly by moving hardware. Here's a Manta 40' for slightly more.
1998 Manta 40 Sail Catamaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[DavidLGCrawford]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

David, As I said before this tri has been for sale for years so there must be a reason and that is nobody wants a big, heavy, slow, steel tri.

One reason it has been slow to sell is that the price was $300k up to last August, at which time they dropped it to $200k. The owner is ill and needs to sell now.

Originally Posted by Sand crab

You don't say where you are or where you would like your boat to be full time but did you notice this is a 220 volt boat? If you are from the US it will be an expensive PIA converting to 110v.

I am in Canada, and will be living aboard in the Caribbean (exploring from Cuba right through to the ABCs).

I can live with 220v, and if I want to change it I can do that myself (lots of experience doing electrical).

I'll check out that Manta, thanks.

[Stumble]

David,

A lot negative has been said here and I want to clarify something. Most of these comments about sailing performance are relative to how other trimarans sail, not compared to other heavily laden cruising boats. As a WAG I would think 100mile days are reasonably attainable with this boat in moderate breeze. Which isn't bad for many cruisers, but falls far short of the 250 mile days Chris White's Hammerhead 54' have achieved.

Since they are so close in size try comparing the two boats for a moment and you can see why. (Helleman : Hammerhead )

Length 53 v 54 - so really the same length
Beam 21'3" v 34'6" - This is a massive increase of righting moment to Hammerhead
Displacement 36,500lbs v 17,000lbs - Again a massive benefit to Hammerhead
Draft 4'9" v 2'9 (board up) - this means the Helleman has a huge amount more wetted surface

If you think of her as an unusually wide monohull your expectations may be more in line with what you will see in practice.


If you are serious about this boat I would probably contact a well known trimaran or catamaran designer and ask their advice about this boat specifically. It is far enough from normal that an experts eye may be worth inquiring about.

[Pelagic]

David.. If you are serious about this as a potential buy then take the time to make a preliminary inspection to see its present condition. You will find out a lot more than advice from those who don't know the boat.
FYI... My own Helleman has traveled every ocean and trip averages about 7 knots with very low fuel consumption

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

And BTW that steel tri has many unfavorable characteristics:
1. Narrow beam
2. Heavy because it's made of steel
3. No bridgedeck clearance
4. Heavy
5. Poor resale. Notice again that it is been for sale for 3 years.
6. Heavy

However it looks to be extremely well done.

Did I mention it was heavy?

On that narrow beam point - the Amas are also relatively small (older design) so that this boat can turtle if pushed too far.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

On that narrow beam point - the Amas are also relatively small (older design) so that this boat can turtle if pushed too far.

You are assuming it is not. Ballasted

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Sand crab]

Ballasted? Wow!

[hpeer]

Well then, if ballasted, I guess that would bring back my relative light weight point. If ballasted I'm guessing quite a lot, given the lack of a deep keel?

That Hammerhead must be a purpose built high mileage boat to be sooooo light.

We looked at a 54' cat, a Rudy Choy, made of 1/4" ply. It was being offered as 1/2" ply, but the owner hit a reef leading to visual inspection, and proof positive of the construction. I think the current Owner really believed it was 1/2", until we went and looked.

[Sand crab]

I'm sure it is not ballasted. It is heavy enough on it's own. Another thing to consider is the length. On one end is the bow spirit and the other end has that overhanging transom deck thing. Which means that this boat is about 6' shorter or around 47'. And as the length gets shorter the weight relative to length becomes more impressive.
And FWIW most multis don't have a built in bow spirit like that. Typically they'll use a single spar. I've never seen a back deck like that one either.
I am not disparaging this boat or Helleman Boat Works. It looks like it is extremely well built with a fantastic interior. It is just the odd design and the steel structure have definitely affected the price point. I'm thinking this boat is worth somewhere in the $125,000 to $150,000 range.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Well then, if ballasted, I guess that would bring back my relative light weight point. If ballasted I'm guessing quite a lot, given the lack of a deep keel?

That Hammerhead must be a purpose built high mileage boat to be sooooo light.

We looked at a 54' cat, a Rudy Choy, made of 1/4" ply. It was being offered as 1/2" ply, but the owner hit a reef leading to visual inspection, and proof positive of the construction. I think the current Owner really believed it was 1/2", until we went and looked.

A bit. It's a Chris White designed ocean cruiser. It was built in small numbers, but does have a turn of speed . But she was designed as a cruising boat, and the ones I know of are used as such, not race boats.

[Sand crab]

Haha. The Hammerhead is a rocketship. It will smoke 99.99% of the boats out there.
Hammerhead 54 Trimaran High Performance Cruising Catamarans and Trimarans by Chris White Designs
Owners Comments about Chris White Designs Catamarans and Trimarans
Blue Water Sailing

And Hecla won the singlehanded Transpac race. To be fair they were by far the fastest single handed boat.
http://blueplanettimes.com/?tag=solo-transpac

[Nicholson58]

I can see where this boat will trigger the hormones in some. Just go in eyes open. Lots of good points noted. Lots of creature comforts on this much real estate.