Thinking about a salvaged catamaran

[hellosailor]

riki-
Realize that if you are buying a hurricane damaged boat anywhere in the carib, the good ones were picked over long ago. Suppose you still find a bargain boat: It is on an island. Everything that it needs must be picked over from scrapyards, or imported by slow cargo vessel, or expensive air cargo. With stiff duties levied. Where will you live? Housing is still impacted by last year's storms, with another hurricane season just begun. Can you secure your boat, or get it out, before the next big storm hits? Not unless you ship it out at once, or roll the dice.
And then assuming you find a bargain, assuming you can fix it up real fast, assuming dry storage doesn't cost a fortune, with that kind of project you can't just take it for a spin and call the motor club if it breaks down. You need to figure 48 hours for a shakedown cruise, followed by perhaps a week of more fixing, followed by a longer shakedown cruise to make sure you've got things right, before you can even dare to take it offshore and home. A lot of folks make the news every year because they "just bought a boat and were taking it home when..." a hose burst, a through-hull let go, the keel fell off, the rudder broke off...and the boat was lost because they didn't do the thorough surveys and shakedown.
By all means take a two week vacation, maybe to Puerto Rico simply because there are lots of boats and lots of shipping (air and sea) to be found. Look at salvage boats, find out what the market really is, see if housing is available, see if junkyards are available with parts....but expect it to be an education, a vacation, but not necessarily a boat-buying trip. Take your wallet, maybe you will get lucky.

[pathlesschosen]

If you buy and repair a hurricane damaged boat you need to well document the repair if you intend on a reasonable resale. Personally I would rather go through the process of repair myself than buy somebody’s shortcut repairs.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Snowgoose35

I have just bought a hurricane damaged boat in the Virgin Islands and shipped it back to the UK - half the ship was hurricane damaged boats. There was really no other choice - I would have liked to sail her but the work to get her fit for a transat could not have been done there - there are too many charter boats vying for yard space, not enough parts and I couldn't even but half the basic tools I needed to make the boat water tight when I was there.

The ship was 3 weeks late, which makes planning very difficult but shipping for a 50 foot cat was $16000 which is a lot but not really compared to 6-8 months of yard space over there, the higher price of parts when you can get them etc etc

There was also EU VAT to pay on import

Now my very thorough budget, for everything based on two previous boat refits was a lot less than many others thought sensible and whilst I expect to be under my "contingency" budget still I will exceed my original estimate - like £600 just to get all the waste (old junk, rotten wood and carpet and foam head linings etc) hauled away; everything is coming out of the interior and I've filled nearly 20 cu yards of waste in a week. Some unforeseeable items came up - like a new SD20 drive shaft as the original was corroded and broke when changing props today, etc but when finished she SHOULD owe me about 50% of her then market value. This means for 6 to 8 months of 6 days a week work on her I'll either save 65K or if I were to sell her make 65K - a good return I'd say but I've only be working on her a week and I already fall asleep by 9 pm each night!

It can be done and does not need to be as costly and difficult as many who have never tried suggest (for example everyone I asked gave me a trade account for parts based on my spend - so I pay 30% less than retail on everything) but its really not for the faint hearted

Nice one. I was wondering where all the *SOLD* hurricane damaged boats were going reading all the answers......and finally discoverd where at least one went!
Thank you for the answer and good luck with your built.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

More of this type of project get started than get finished. I would look to buy someone’s failed project for pennies on the dollar from a guy who felt like you do now at one time in the past. Let’s face it: the purchase price of the project boat is the cheapest part of the job.....

Many answers suggesting to get a previously failed project.....BUT.....looks like there are way more salvaged boats sold than "failed projects" available; well actually i haven't been lucky enough to find one.....or maybe failed projects are not that common?

[riki]

Originally Posted by Suijin

The chances of this going right are slim. The chances of it going wrong are enormous.

Consider the following scenario.

You buy the boat. You get there with your friends. You find, as you start to rip the boat apart that there is significantly more extensive damage than you had thought. It was not documented because as soon as the surveyor calculated that it was a total loss they moved onto the next boat. These are not intensive investigations, they are separating the wheat from the chaff in a huge pile of chaff from the hurricanes.

Now you try and get the materials that you need to fix the boat. Good luck with that. There's a shortage and you're competing with professional outfits. You have to wait weeks to get what you need to even begin.

You find out that some of the work is beyond the skills and expertise of you and your friends. You call around. Everyone is slammed. More weeks go by. They start work, oops they need parts and materials. More weeks go by.

This is not a worst case scenario. It's probably closer to the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that you finally realize the boat cannot be fixed with what you can afford, you sell it at a loss and you go home.

As for doing the minimum to then sail your cat back to Europe, along the northern route...ahem. Yes there is minimum and then there is minimum, but unless you've got a few ocean crossings under your belt, the idea that you could prepare a boat for it, much less one that you're patching up on the cheap for the trip, is not safe or prudent.

I highly suspect that any boat that was worth fixing up post Irma and Maria is already off the market. What's left is probably stuff you don't want to touch.

You are right. The more deep i dig into this idea the more i lean towards shipping: as you say, too many things that can go wrong and translate in big expenses. Shipping the boat instead, even if quite expensive, would make my expenses much more programmable and distribuited in time.

[riki]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

riki-
Realize that if you are buying a hurricane damaged boat anywhere in the carib, the good ones were picked over long ago. Suppose you still find a bargain boat: It is on an island. Everything that it needs must be picked over from scrapyards, or imported by slow cargo vessel, or expensive air cargo. With stiff duties levied. Where will you live? Housing is still impacted by last year's storms, with another hurricane season just begun. Can you secure your boat, or get it out, before the next big storm hits? Not unless you ship it out at once, or roll the dice.
And then assuming you find a bargain, assuming you can fix it up real fast, assuming dry storage doesn't cost a fortune, with that kind of project you can't just take it for a spin and call the motor club if it breaks down. You need to figure 48 hours for a shakedown cruise, followed by perhaps a week of more fixing, followed by a longer shakedown cruise to make sure you've got things right, before you can even dare to take it offshore and home. A lot of folks make the news every year because they "just bought a boat and were taking it home when..." a hose burst, a through-hull let go, the keel fell off, the rudder broke off...and the boat was lost because they didn't do the thorough surveys and shakedown.
By all means take a two week vacation, maybe to Puerto Rico simply because there are lots of boats and lots of shipping (air and sea) to be found. Look at salvage boats, find out what the market really is, see if housing is available, see if junkyards are available with parts....but expect it to be an education, a vacation, but not necessarily a boat-buying trip. Take your wallet, maybe you will get lucky.

looking how many and the conditions of the available boats, indeed looks like they are remainings. But my idea of the salvaged is just at first analysis, still have to decide if it doable or not so in any case, eventually, we are talking about 2019: who knows what will be available by then.
You mention Puerto Rico, indeed i will plan a long trip to the caribbean because of course it's out of discussion to buy without personally being there and see the boat, but i can't travel to all the caribbean countries. What would be the best place to achieve my goal? I saw that maybe the most important salvage shipyard is in Tortola and makes online bids (http://www.yachtsalvage.com/list.htm)......any other suggestions?
Cheers

[44'cruisingcat]

Any boats that haven't been sold by now, you'd imagine they'd be getting pretty desperate to get rid of. I'd be making REALLY low offers.

[Teleman]

Every boat gets sold eventually. You will legally have to reveal that the boat is a repaired wreck. To get a buyer you will have to drop the price to the point that you make a big loss on the project overall.


Building a new cat (with some professional help) will get you a decent return, and a boat set up just how you want it.


If you have a definite $budget for the project, you should investigate what kind of boat you could build, possibly from a kit.

It will certainly be quicker, easier, cheaper, than refurbishing a write-off.

[riki]

Originally Posted by pathlesschosen

If you buy and repair a hurricane damaged boat you need to well document the repair if you intend on a reasonable resale. Personally I would rather go through the process of repair myself than buy somebody’s shortcut repairs.

I never said about "shortcuts": my intention is to make a good repair and enjoy my boat and instead of thinking about resale i'd rather think about my family (and mine btw) safety.

[riki]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Any boats that haven't been sold by now, you'd imagine they'd be getting pretty desperate to get rid of. I'd be making REALLY low offers.

Indeed. My intention is to keep the bit as low as possible,20/25k as maximum: won't make any sense going higher than that.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Teleman

Every boat gets sold eventually. You will legally have to reveal that the boat is a repaired wreck. To get a buyer you will have to drop the price to the point that you make a big loss on the project overall.


Building a new cat (with some professional help) will get you a decent return, and a boat set up just how you want it.


If you have a definite $budget for the project, you should investigate what kind of boat you could build, possibly from a kit.

It will certainly be quicker, easier, cheaper, than refurbishing a write-off.

I am not very sure about that: if a boat is well repaired and pass a buyers survey, why not if there is a considerable difference in price compared to same model/vintage. What i understand is that 70% of the price of repairs is man labour, in my case, till a certain point, mine. I don't think that i can become rich restoring a wreck, but if nicely and smartly done i think that it's possible to even resell for a slightly higher price. In fact there are huracanes destroying boats every year since years: did you ever find on the market a catamaran bein sold for much less than it's average? I didn't and i don't believe than none of the restored cats still didn't get into market.
That said, my idea is to use my boat and enjoy it, not thinking to make business from restoration.
I also thought about the kit idea, and/or project starting from plans, but all drive me to a higher price than what i can afford. And in any case i don't feel confortable to build myself from scratch.
Cheers

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I hadn't read everyone's opinions. This may be a concern in some countries and not others. You said salvage so it may be worth looking into and title hang ups if an insurance co. has written a boat off as salvage. Just a thought.

Related to this are you an EU resident and will the boat go to the EU ever?

If the boat hasn't been CE certified, my understanding is it's a huge hassle and expense to get it certified after it leave the manufacturers plant.

Then you have the 20%+ VAT.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by riki

Many answers suggesting to get a previously failed project.....BUT.....looks like there are way more salvaged boats sold than "failed projects" available; well actually i haven't been lucky enough to find one.....or maybe failed projects are not that common?

Usually, they aren't actively advertised. Go wander about local boat yards and look for sad boats in the back then talk to the marina owners. It's not unusual that the owner gave up and walked away. The marina may be able to put you in contact with the owner or the marina may have foreclosed due to storage bills not being paid. If the marina got ownership, they may be willing to sell it cheap just so they don't have to pay to have it hauled away.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by riki

I am not very sure about that: if a boat is well repaired and pass a buyers survey, why not if there is a considerable difference in price compared to same model/vintage. What i understand is that 70% of the price of repairs is man labour, in my case, till a certain point, mine. I don't think that i can become rich restoring a wreck, but if nicely and smartly done i think that it's possible to even resell for a slightly higher price. In fact there are huracanes destroying boats every year since years: did you ever find on the market a catamaran bein sold for much less than it's average?

Resale value may be a minor consideration for you but a salvage title will definitely get you lower offers when the time comes to sell. Part of the problem is once it's all sealed up, there are parts that the surveyor can't see, so to compensate for the risk most people will want a lower price compared to one that doesn't have evidence of major issues.

You typically won't see it in advertisements as they don't want to scare people off. Easier to deal with it after the buyer is invested in the possible purchase. Also I'm sure it's not unusual for unscrupulous owners to hide the issue. At least in the USA, boat titles aren't the same as car titles where there is a clear indication that a car is salvaged.

[Sand crab]

You might want to think about getting it fixed up enough just to get to Florida. Everything is there. Masts, booms, sails, air conditioners and more are made there. There is a huge boating industry that has it all. You could forego the expense of shipping it to Turkey and put that money into repairs in Florida and then sail it back or just settle for just sailing it around the Carib. Now that would suck.