The Reason People Are Moving Away From Monohulls

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Mariano

Like buying a cat. .....[emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1]

LOL

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by weavis

We dont read it differently.
I read more than you do. You would be surprised what is removed as offensive at times.

Fair call, but still this forum represents a very tiny percentage of the cruising community, my views come from being out there doing it not just this forum.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[smj]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Why wouldn't I? You obviously have an opinion?

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

To me it seems as the people who consider cats to be unseaworthy also consider Catalina's, Hunters and Beneteaus as being unseaworthy. Least that's what I learn from CF.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by smj

Least that's what I learn from CF.

Which reminds me of one of my favorite quote from Ronaldas Magnus:

"It isn't so much that [they] are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”

[Catmandu]

Maybe this has something to do with it:

https://youtu.be/rX8RZ648iCU

10kts in 10kts of wind

great views

Lots of space

Flat sailing

.... just saying ...

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by smj

To me it seems as the people who consider cats to be unseaworthy also consider Catalina's, Hunters and Beneteaus as being unseaworthy. Least that's what I learn from CF.

Ignorance is ignorance regardless of where it's projected.

Im going to edit what I said earlier " most cruisers don't have an issue with cats" to "cruisers that I knock around with don't have issues with cats" , I try not to be around ignorant fools that have unsubstantiated opnions, or people that hook their identity to one type of boat.

An example would be my own boat, I wonder what percentage of people on this forum have been on a Catalina 470, know how and what its constructed of, are the bulk heads glued in or glassed, is it a stick boat, grid or liner structure, does it have collision bulk heads, is the keel lead or cast iron? Etc etc.......my point is the % on this forum that will have a opinion regarding this boat will be much much greater than the % of people on this forum that can answer any of the above or know anything at all about it . Do you really know anything about the Catalina 470 Smj?

The same applies for cats or tris.



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[GTom]

Originally Posted by Catmandu

10kts in 10kts of wind

And 10kts current

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GTom

Out of the 8 lost boats, 2 were cats. I couldn't find a full entry list if this 25% is an over or under-representation.

The status of "lost" is a bit misleading.
- One cat was found later still floating upright. The ship wasn't lost, the people got off. That boat started with a crippled steering system before the storm.
- Likewise the people got off the second boat. The only reason it went down is it was intentionally rammed until is sank. From the description, they were fairly incompetent to begin with (and a little crazy) but the boat never failed them.

Take away the ramming and the evidence points to two boats with rigs still standing after the storm. Show me the average fiberglass mono that can handle a large steel ship repeatedly ramming her and we can discuss.

Do we have any mitigating factors for why several monos experienced knock downs, lost rigs and one that just disappeared?

[smj]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Ignorance is ignorance regardless of where it's projected.

Im going to edit what I said earlier " most cruisers don't have an issue with cats" to "cruisers that I knock around with don't have issues with cats" , I try not to be around ignorant fools that have unsubstantiated opnions, or people that hook their identity to one type of boat.

An example would be my own boat, I wonder what percentage of people on this forum have been on a Catalina 470, know how and what its constructed of, are the bulk heads glued in or glassed, is it a stick boat, grid or liner structure, does it have collision bulk heads, is the keel lead or cast iron? Etc etc.......my point is the % on this forum that will have a opinion regarding this boat will be much much greater than the % of people on this forum that can answer any of the above or know anything at all about it . Do you really know anything about the Catalina 470 Smj?

The same applies for cats or tris.



Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

My reply wasn't meant to denigrate your boat but to make the same point you just made, most the people that have attitudes towards certain boats or types of boats, are usually the ones who have absolutely no experience with those types of boats.

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by smj

This was written by an ex CF moderator.
https://www.ssca.org/forum/viewtopic...283be58#p33869
The info he gathered pretty much copies the conversations I've had with Lloyds Of London insurance.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I question is data set and his methodology. This sounds anecdotal and unscientific.

Is this based on miles sailed? Sail off shore? Per person or per vessel? Where was his "data" collected? Seems to me that considering that there are way fewer cats... it is a very hard conclusion to draw.

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by weavis

....
I have no prejudices regarding catamarans. I either like the model Im looking at or I dont. Thats preference. But as a seaworthy vessel, Im pretty convinced statistically and by owners comments that do thousands of miles on them every year that they are safe.
....

Boats as "classes" are neither safe or unsafe... more safe of less safe.

Safety at sea is menu of many factors... including how the boat is rigged, canvased and so on. I suppose if you look at some races where boats were lost... such as the Fastnet... how would you account for the fact that some vessels foundered in those conditions and others did not?

I wouldn't make a statement that cats are "as safe" or less safe or more safe than monos. Insurance actuarial data will not tell the story.

As an aside... which naval architect design both monos and cats?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Sandero

I question is data set and his methodology. This sounds anecdotal and unscientific.



Is this based on miles sailed? Sail off shore? Per person or per vessel? Where was his "data" collected? Seems to me that considering that there are way fewer cats... it is a very hard conclusion to draw.

I would guess the data you would like to see would be virtually impossible to collect. And I'm sure Sandy, who was an employee for the NTSB at the time, used whatever data he could find and was available to him. I wonder if they have much more to go on when reviewing car safety? The experts would be the insurance agents and the ones I've talked to rate the cats as a safer risk for them.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Boats as "classes" are neither safe or unsafe... more safe of less safe.

Safety at sea is menu of many factors... including how the boat is rigged, canvased and so on. I suppose if you look at some races where boats were lost... such as the Fastnet... how would you account for the fact that some vessels foundered in those conditions and others did not?

I wouldn't make a statement that cats are "as safe" or less safe or more safe than monos. Insurance actuarial data will not tell the story.

As an aside... which naval architect design both monos and cats?

Any boat is only as safe as the ability/competence of the skipper operating it.. fact.

[Mariano]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Boats as "classes" are neither safe or unsafe... more safe of less safe.

Safety at sea is menu of many factors... including how the boat is rigged, canvased and so on. I suppose if you look at some races where boats were lost... such as the Fastnet... how would you account for the fact that some vessels foundered in those conditions and others did not?

I wouldn't make a statement that cats are "as safe" or less safe or more safe than monos. Insurance actuarial data will not tell the story.

As an aside... which naval architect design both monos and cats?

Wath about GERMÁN FRERS, who has designed many monohull sailboats for Hallberg Rassy, Nautor Swan, Hylas, Euphoria, and lots of custom boats all over the world. Don't you think a Nautor or a Hallberg are considered offshore capable boats? He also designed cats for Ocean Quality Systems, specially made for offshore cruising but also condo looking (NOT FOR ME, but surelly for someone who dislikes cats).

[smj]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Boats as "classes" are neither safe or unsafe... more safe of less safe.



Safety at sea is menu of many factors... including how the boat is rigged, canvased and so on. I suppose if you look at some races where boats were lost... such as the Fastnet... how would you account for the fact that some vessels foundered in those conditions and others did not?



I wouldn't make a statement that cats are "as safe" or less safe or more safe than monos. Insurance actuarial data will not tell the story.



As an aside... which naval architect design both monos and cats?

Bob Perry, Bill Dixon. Both well known monohull designers that have designed catamarans