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18-05-2021, 16:45
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#61
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,886
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
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This is a favourite of mine
https://youtu.be/13cWnp-aaDE
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18-05-2021, 17:04
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On the boat
Boat: LAGOON 400
Posts: 2,373
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
I thought you were Australian?
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heritage of pre-australian times of my life. some things just stay unabated.
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18-05-2021, 17:11
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On the boat
Boat: LAGOON 400
Posts: 2,373
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
And you don’t think people on lightweight catamarans are comfortable? I’ve sailed on a couple of Lagoons and to be honest I could never get used to the creaking and groaning of the bulkheads and furniture. Does that occur in a choppy anchorage as well as under sail? Our lightweight cats have been silent under sail except for 5he sound of the water rushing by.
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there are obviously different levels of finishes in lagoons, no idea why our better built. Our does not creak or anything else. We get noise in 1 spot maybe 1x a year when really dry <30% moisture levels. but bit of wd 40 sorts it out till next time. In near 9 years shrouds still hold firm on 25 apparent reaching. Never retensioned. How are your shrouds? Flapping in 15 kn apparent ?
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20-05-2021, 19:31
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 3,755
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
Exactly what do you think your boat is made of?
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Well, below the waterline, solid GRP. Above the waterline Balsa blocks cored. All infusion bagged and Vinyl-Ester soaked, on the outside is gelcoat and then antifouling (in my case Coppercoat - epoxy based and a good osmosis barrier.
All furniture is marine plywood, most is glued and bolted but some of this can squeek, especially panels, bulkhead decoration panels and frames, they are only screwed on for easy removal and tend to become noisy. Many structural enforcements / bulkheads are marine ply. Some are laminated, some are glued on. Deck and hulls are glued and screwed to each other.
What do you think my boat is made of?
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20-05-2021, 20:20
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Annapolis MD
Boat: Building a Max Cruise 44 hybrid electric cat
Posts: 3,287
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee
Well, below the waterline, solid GRP. Above the waterline Balsa blocks cored. All infusion bagged and Vinyl-Ester soaked, on the outside is gelcoat and then antifouling (in my case Coppercoat - epoxy based and a good osmosis barrier.
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*Polyester infused. Vinyl ester is just the outer layer for osmosis protection. But who's counting?
Matt
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21-05-2021, 02:54
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#66
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On the boat
Boat: LAGOON 400
Posts: 2,373
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Johnson
*Polyester infused. Vinyl ester is just the outer layer for osmosis protection. But who's counting?
Matt
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what does it mean can you please elaborate?
sorry, i am totally uneducated in this area.
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21-05-2021, 09:10
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,627
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga
what does it mean can you please elaborate?
sorry, i am totally uneducated in this area.
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Means the majority of the structure has had polyester resin sucked into it. Then the whole thing over coated with vinyl ester.
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21-05-2021, 09:49
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#68
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 3,755
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey
Means the majority of the structure has had polyester resin sucked into it. Then the whole thing over coated with vinyl ester.
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I dont think so. The hulls are built at once: separator vax, gelcoat sprayed on, then the mats and core layup, vacuum bags and infusion resin, I am pretty sure they use vinylester for the whole package, no extra coating on the gelcoat inside.
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21-05-2021, 14:05
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On the boat
Boat: LAGOON 400
Posts: 2,373
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee
I dont think so. The hulls are built at once: separator vax, gelcoat sprayed on, then the mats and core layup, vacuum bags and infusion resin, I am pretty sure they use vinylester for the whole package, no extra coating on the gelcoat inside.
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manual:
The LAGOON 400 is built of balsawood sandwich (monolithic below
the water line),polyester resin and vinyl-ester; the counter-mould
sare monolithic and the partitions are made of laminated plywood.
The nacelle and deck are of balsawood sandwich composite.
We had 2x serious impact on our hulls and both times superficial damage only so my opinion is that boat is built very well. Also rigging very stiff and not adjusted in 9 years.
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21-05-2021, 14:38
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#70
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On the boat
Boat: LAGOON 400
Posts: 2,373
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga
manual:
The LAGOON 400 is built of balsawood sandwich (monolithic below
the water line),polyester resin and vinyl-ester; the counter-mould
sare monolithic and the partitions are made of laminated plywood.
The nacelle and deck are of balsawood sandwich composite.
We had 2x serious impact on our hulls and both times superficial damage only so my opinion is that boat is built very well. Also rigging very stiff and not adjusted in 9 years.
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more detail
• The anti-osmosis barrier systematically created by the use of vinylester type resin on all the Lagoons is a guarantee of durability.
so my guess would be Lagoon uses vinylester resin on waterside of hull and continues with polyester to build whole thickness of hull under water.
Never heard of osmosis on Lagoon.
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21-05-2021, 15:35
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,461
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga
more detail
• The anti-osmosis barrier systematically created by the use of vinylester type resin on all the Lagoons is a guarantee of durability.
so my guess would be Lagoon uses vinylester resin on waterside of hull and continues with polyester to build whole thickness of hull under water.
Never heard of osmosis on Lagoon.
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I think that’s a pretty standard layup for most production sailboats built nowadays.
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22-05-2021, 04:55
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#72
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Shuttleworth Advantage
Posts: 2,809
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey
Means the majority of the structure has had polyester resin sucked into it. Then the whole thing over coated with vinyl ester.
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No moulded boats are built like this over coating afterwards would require fairing and finishing that negates the whole point of using a mould.
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22-05-2021, 06:01
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,627
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupaia
No moulded boats are built like this over coating afterwards would require fairing and finishing that negates the whole point of using a mould.
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I suppose I was being too literal.
Ok, so in the mold the gelcoat is sprayed, followed by vinyl ester, then glass with poly sucked in.
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22-05-2021, 11:01
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#74
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 5,067
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
So is the vinylester just sprayed on the mould and not infused into the glass?
How does Seawind do it?
__________________
Slowly going senile but enjoying the ride.
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22-05-2021, 11:10
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,627
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Re: The reason lighter cats are safer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab
So is the vinylester just sprayed on the mould and not infused into the glass?
How does Seawind do it?
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That’s a question for the layup schedule of the manufacturer
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