The Evolution of "Condomarans"

[Saleen411]

Besides the REALLY nice fly bridge, I like the usable foredeck thing...

Facing east as the sun sets... .One can enjoy the sundowners in the shade with the breeze in your face.

If one wants to sit in the cockpit as the sun sets, open the front windows and still get the breeze. Nice!

Theres a lot to like about this boat......a bunch not to like also, which is why we scratched it from our short list.

[weavis]

My conclusion:

I dont like it. Therefore no further input is needed.
Im not buying one and Im not going to sail on one.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

...I like the usable foredeck thing...

Our (admittedly modest) 'blue water' passage-making experience suggests that a solid foredeck on a cat must raise some (possibly life-threatening!?) stability issues in big seas...where does the water go when the big green ones land on that foredeck?!?

In fact, after seeing very large volumes of water moving around up there we're so squeamish on foredeck stability that we would refuse even the close-weave fiberglass mesh, preferring always open rope (or in our case dyneema) mesh, leaving the 'foredeck' virtually invisible to the seas.

[rabbi]

This is not a bluewater cat. They have the catana line for that. This is a boat to have a good time on the water and be back in the marina for dinner.
Which is what many people do so building a boat just for this can't be a bad idea. It has many desireable features for weekenders, holiday makers as well as liveaboarders that don't move. They will sell quite a few i bet.


A bad idea is to buy this boat to travel the world or even do a major crossing.
I would not want to be in the shoes of the delivery crews. But maybe they will simply use dockwise yacht transport.

[a64pilot]

I can't afford one, but from what I've seen it is excellent for what most boats are actually used for.
People that actually travel long distances in boats are a rarity, and possibly they are less likely to buy new boats, and of course manufacturers are focused of course on new boat buyers.
Instead of beating on the manufacturers, instead we maybe ought to wonder about the new boat buyer


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[StuM]

Thinking about it, the almost universal bad reaction here is to be expected from a Cruisers Forum. I doubt that any cruiser (current or intending) would consider such a vessel.

However, I'm sure that there are plenty of buyers who are looking specifically for a party/weekender boat for use solely in smooth/protected waters and this one probably fits the bill for that.

[smj]

I'm sure this boat would do fine in the Bahamas or Caribbean, so I would consider it a cruising boat. Though not the kind of cruising boat that would fit my needs.


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[D&D]

Originally Posted by rabbi

This is not a bluewater cat. They have the catana line for that.

We thought (based on Post #94 in this thread) this was a Catana vessel?

As for being OK for Caribbean or for that matter any coastal cruising, any blue water passage will at least risk the foredeck stability issues we suggested. We admit to being basically coastal cruisers these days (including the odd jaunt across Bass Strait) but even when picking weather windows for day passages, following the forecasts won't always -- Some would say 'will often NOT!?! -- protect you from seas that will see plenty of green on and around the foredeck...

[StuM]

Originally Posted by D&D

As for being OK for Caribbean or for that matter any coastal cruising, any blue water passage will at least risk the foredeck stability issues we suggested. We admit to being basically coastal cruisers these days (including the odd jaunt across Bass Strait) but even when picking weather windows for day passages, following the forecasts won't always -- Some would say 'will often NOT!?! -- protect you from seas that will see plenty of green on and around the foredeck...

In Australian terms, I wouldn't take that thing outside of "partially smooth waters" at any time and would only leave "smooth waters" on a day trip with a good forecast.

Queensland
Complete list of designated smooth/partially smooth waters:
Smooth and partially smooth water limits (Maritime Safety Queensland)

New South Wales: Draft NSW regulations
Smooth/partially smooth areas designated in Schedules 2 and 3:
http://maritimemanagement.transport....ation-2015.pdf

[smj]

Originally Posted by D&D

We thought (based on Post #94 in this thread) this was a Catana vessel?

As for being OK for Caribbean or for that matter any coastal cruising, any blue water passage will at least risk the foredeck stability issues we suggested. We admit to being basically coastal cruisers these days (including the odd jaunt across Bass Strait) but even when picking weather windows for day passages, following the forecasts won't always -- Some would say 'will often NOT!?! -- protect you from seas that will see plenty of green on and around the foredeck...

The older Prouts have solid foredecks yet they have been and still are regarded as one of the most seaworthy bluewater boats. I'm not a fan of the Bali for various reasons but was wondering what in your opinion makes this solid foredeck so unseaworthy?


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[REsCat]

Originally Posted by D&D

Our (admittedly modest) 'blue water' passage-making experience suggests that a solid foredeck on a cat must raise some (possibly life-threatening!?) stability issues in big seas...where does the water go when the big green ones land on that foredeck?!?

smj "The older Prouts have solid foredecks yet they have been and still are regarded as one of the most seaworthy bluewater boats. I'm not a fan of the Bali for various reasons but was wondering what in your opinion makes this solid foredeck so unseaworthy?"

How do you both feel (and others) about the evolutionary step of front porches with deep sitting wells or just front sitting wells in foredecks of the new designs?
That growing feature gives me pause about long term offshore safety...

Bob

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by D&D

We thought (based on Post #94 in this thread) this was a Catana vessel?

It's built by Catana - their attempt to capture a broader market share of those buyers wanting charter style cats vs the cats Catana has traditionally built.

Dave

[smj]

Originally Posted by REsCat

smj "The older Prouts have solid foredecks yet they have been and still are regarded as one of the most seaworthy bluewater boats. I'm not a fan of the Bali for various reasons but was wondering what in your opinion makes this solid foredeck so unseaworthy?"



How do you both feel (and others) about the evolutionary step of front porches with deep sitting wells or just front sitting wells in foredecks of the new designs?

That growing feature gives me pause about long term offshore safety...



Bob

The front cockpit is one of the things I don't like about the Bali. The Leopard 44 and 48 have the same feature yet they have a trampoline not a solid foredeck. Which would collect more water in their forward cockpits, the Bali with the solid foredeck or the Leopard with the trampolines?


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[Moonos]

Originally Posted by StuM

In Australian terms, I wouldn't take that thing outside of "partially smooth waters" at any time and would only leave "smooth waters" on a day trip with a good forecast.

And that is precisely where bare boat charters are allowed to go.

I have only sailed once in the Whitsundays, and the conditions East of Hamilton island would have been too much for the Bali that's for sure. I pity any charterers who took the Bali out in that.

But horses for courses. As long as people are informed about the limitations then good luck with them.

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by REsCat

what in your opinion makes this solid foredeck so unseaworthy?

Bob - It seems that solid "tramps" are shunned (or used to be shunned) due to the threat of putting the bows into a wave creating a big scoop with no where for the water to pass through.

Dave