Stress and Wear on Rigging

[Islander1]

Originally Posted by boatman61

But a factual one none the less....
Many early Prouts etc suffered mast beam compression problems from overtensioning because of the way the rig was set up...
Thats why the A Frame is so good... also the Wharram technique of taking the rig to the outside hull...

Hi Boatman 61.
Corribee 21, Wow, I recall many years ago meeting Alan Toone in Antigua, he' sailed a Coribbee across the pond & back, we later met up at Southampton Boatshow, really neat guy to talk to, I think he was an ex Para who sailed with Chay Blythe?

[Islander1]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Why the hell would a mono guy even want to salvage a multi. Multis suck, the mast and rigging cause catastrophic failure and sink the whole boat, they ride flat so you don't even get the thrill of sleeping at 45 degrees, they got way to much space so all you do is clean, clean, clean, the salon has way to much sun and ventilation instead of that nice dark cavey feel that monos have. Oh, crap, I think I stirred the pot again.

U Bettcha Did!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I did a Yachtworld search on multihulls built from 1975 to 1985 and came up with 80 hits.
1975 (Sail) Multi-Hull Boats For Sale
Some are tris and some are duplicate listings but that is still a good argument that older multis can last if built well. Remember that quite a few of the early ones were home built by novices using poor material choices and bad building practices. Most of those have met the chainsaw by now so we are left with the good ones rather production or home built. I agree that cats have engineering challenges but these are easily overcome by proper construction and these boats are a testament to that. BOB

Does not compute.

I just did a Yachtworld search for all sailboats for sale built between 75-85 and got 6704 hits. Leaving off your 80 multi's and ignoring the double listings as you did that leaves 6624 mono's. That's an awful lot more monos. Makes 80 multi's look like light pickin's. Or maybe not.

Unless you know how many monos and multi were built during that period in order to compute the ratio and then look at the ratio of mono to multi that are currently for sale (which I agree would probably be a good indicator of all surviving boats) you aren't going to be able determine any trends about longevity.

Just saying there are currently 80 multi's for sale built during a certain period doesn't say anything except that they have managed to survive this long and their owners want to unload them.

I have no strong opinion either way on the longevity of mono's vs multi's and am unlikely to have one until somebody comes up with some researched numbers.

In that vein I am dubious of the opinions oif riggers since they by trade repair broken boats so they have a bias'd data set.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Islander1

Hi Boatman 61.
Corribee 21, Wow, I recall many years ago meeting Alan Toone in Antigua, he' sailed a Coribbee across the pond & back, we later met up at Southampton Boatshow, really neat guy to talk to, I think he was an ex Para who sailed with Chay Blythe?

From memory I think he was a Marine - all much the same

"Corrie Bee" late 70's - I remember reading about the voyage(s) in one of the boating magazines as a teenager. Awesome stuff

He wrote a book about it (I think!).

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by boatman61

But a factual one none the less....
Many early Prouts etc suffered mast beam compression problems from overtensioning because of the way the rig was set up...
Thats why the A Frame is so good... also the Wharram technique of taking the rig to the outside hull...

Why all the mono guys in here today? This appears to be a sudden attack of Multihull envy. Or did Andy start this threat to start a little controversy?

If we leave out Wharrams, which are very solid, and only because not all were production boats, and look at British boats (they were almost the entire industry in that time period) from the '60s- '80s. Bobcats (wood boats), Aristocats, Prouts, Catalacs, Heavenly twins, and I know I left some out unintentionally... you'll discover that almost all boats built are still sailing today. Now add in French boats built in the '90s, and don't forget Australian and South African boats. So... where are all the rig failure or " my boat fell apart" stories? Surely, we all would have read those stories by now, especially here in this forum.

One thing is true. Older boats do have to be maintained, regardless of what type of boat it is. That rigger should offer something a bit more substantive when offering an off the cuff comment like that.

[boatman61]

Tropic calm down....lol
Not saying they were wrecks... most were fixed and are still going strong... a few were not and became floating home in places like Potugal and Spain....

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Tropic calm down....lol
Not saying they were wrecks... most were fixed and are still going strong... a few were not and became floating home in places like Potugal and Spain....

Not even close. '80s built Catalacs and Prouts are still making ocean crossings in 2011. They are not used as floating condos as you implied and can be found all over the Pacific islands as well as the Caribbean and the Greek and Italian end of Mediterranean.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by boatman61

But a factual one none the less....
Many early Prouts etc suffered mast beam compression problems from overtensioning because of the way the rig was set up...
Thats why the A Frame is so good... also the Wharram technique of taking the rig to the outside hull...

I really like the A frame concept and are aware of most that have been built to date. Interesting that the owner of Catbird suite a 60ft Malcome Tennant A frame cat said his A frame using standard Al mast supplies cost less than building a conventional rig.

Unfortunately not enough have been taken up yet for me to take the risk of being 1st cab off the rank for a given vessel.

There is no doubt engineering and materials of todays generation of multihull design has resolved most of the design issues with multihulls which in the very early days may have using trial and error.

Crowther was one of the early designers to use tank testing and many of todays designs have used finite element analysis and the software is readily availabe to designers.

[Factor]

All predictable responses from predictable posters.

[hummingway]

An interesting post from the OP. I should warn you all, the finger I use to delete posts is getting itchy. I'll leave it up to your imagination to guess which that is. Stick to the subject, resist the urge to be a moron, no matter how overwhelming that may be and your post will stand.

In case I left any doubt that was a hint.

[Dulcesuenos]

OP brings up a good point, I too have wondered about the lifespan of cat riging. Mine for instance is a fractional rig, one forestay and one shroud / stay (forgive my newbiness) on each side. Compared to our 31 mono that has a double the number of Shrouds,and a back stay.
I would think that factored in with Cats do not heel much at all, must surely put more stress on the rigging. I dont know, anyone an engineer?
Shed some light pah lease, I need something else to wonder about other then cleaning all that floor space, and deciding where the entertainment center, ping pong table, and hot tub will go.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I want to add anchors and guns.

I just bought a "plastic" shotgun in the eyes of "traditionalists".
Remington 887 nitro mag tactical.
If it was a boat, it would be a multihull.
If it was an anchor, it would probably be either a FX or a Rocna.
How's THAT for stirring the pot?

BTW, my trimaran has original rigging from 1995 which I check from masthead to deck every year at least a couple of times.
All is still 100% thanks to the Pacific North Wet.
I don't think loading has much effect, it's the dynamic loading (micro chafe) and salt intrusion which does most damage.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

OP brings up a good point, I too have wondered about the lifespan of cat riging. Mine for instance is a fractional rig, one forestay and one shroud / stay (forgive my newbiness) on each side. Compared to our 31 mono that has a double the number of Shrouds,and a back stay.
I would think that factored in with Cats do not heel much at all, must surely put more stress on the rigging. I dont know, anyone an engineer?
Shed some light pah lease, I need something else to wonder about other then cleaning all that floor space, and deciding where the entertainment center, ping pong table, and hot tub will go.

Cats most certainly have higher loads applied to their rigging due to their stability and resistance to heeling. Luckily, this fact has not escaped the attention of the designers and you will find heavier rigging and attachments on cats compared to similarly sized monohulls.

Rigging on ANY boat that is actively cruised in the tropics, lower latitudes or often raced should be replaced every 7-10 years (many insurance companies require this, and they don't differentiate among the number of hulls). After this point, you are playing roulette with both mono and multi, with the better odds on the mono because the greater amount of rigging that is necessary for them allows failures to be dealt with before they become dismastings.

Mark

[Islander1]

Originally Posted by hummingway

An interesting post from the OP. I should warn you all, the finger I use to delete posts is getting itchy. I'll leave it up to your imagination to guess which that is. Stick to the subject, resist the urge to be a moron, no matter how overwhelming that may be and your post will stand.

In case I left any doubt that was a hint.

05.09 here in the "Jolly Old UK"

Just found this link which I thought was very well written, at least from my perspective As Yottie in a Quandary!

Catamaran Vs Monohull

[hummingway]

The question of whether the rigging on a cat wears early and if so what can can be done about mitigating the issue is something we can discuss but multi vs mono clearly isn't, it's hard enough having a discussion of individual issues free of baiting and noise. There's been some intelligent comments on rigging. Can we stick to that?