Speed of a 50 ft. St. Francis

[caradow]

Does anyone have any knowledge on cruising speeds on a 50 ft St Francis?
Would be interested to see various speeds with varying wind velocities.

[Kinkircating]

From my understanding when discussing the boat with a former owner of a recent hull, the performance wasn’t quite what he had hoped for and the boat was significantly heavier than advertised.

That being said I would anticipate the sailing performance being very similar to a Lagoon 52 Sport Top.

They are very nice boats, but if you are not looking for a performance type boat, I’d also suggest looking at Knysna right down the road from St. Francis.

[smj]

Lagoon 52 is about double the weight of the St Francis 50 and has much wider hulls at the waterline. The multihull dynamics website shows the St Francis as being significantly faster under sail.
A couple of performance indicators for the St Francis:
SA/D-25.41
BN-1.26

[Kinkircating]

I guess what I’m saying is I’ve spoken with owners of this catamaran and its displacement and performance numbers are not as advertised. It’s a great live aboard catamaran, and above average performance wise.

[Rorke Miller]

I have my logs from sailing, motorsailing, and motoring on a St Francis 50 in 2018-2020. Conditions varied during our voyage from South Africa to Lake Superior back to Caribbean.

The speed numbers fell far short of the projections. The boat was heavier than stated. I was never actually weighed, but we took measurements off the hull and bridge deck clearance. By “we” I mean myself and my South African surveyor who later moved to St Francis to become the GM of St Francis.

Lavranos was the designer of the 48’, which became the 50’. He was not supportive of the weight that was added. It actually made him distance himself from the brand (also, he was not receiving owed royalties). He is a very cool guy and I admired his designs forever.

When I did the boat shows, I printed new signage and made new flyers to reflect that actual numbers. We also posted the actual numbers on our yacht world page and forums. We refused to lie to people just to sell boats.
The boat was plenty nice enough for what is was. There is always a blend of performance and comfort that meets people’s desires.

One of the newer boats was sold at the Miami Boat Show in 2019. I can’t discuss the entire matter openly. However, I can say that I told the factory and the owner that they were overloading the boat. The baseline weight was not correct. The overloading was going to make the boat nearly unseaworthy. It was positively going to violate the CE certification.
This was not well received by the factory or the owner.

The boat was built. It was re-sold before the owner ever sailed her. I believe it was to be re-sold as a motor sailor. The delivery captain reported problems due to her displacement. Not just slow, because that can be remedied by running an engine. This boat couldn’t climb the swells when running. This was what I tried to warn against. It is under on the sails, rig, and fittings to come to a dead stop by hitting the back of a wave.

I did contact the broker out of courtesy to let them know about this. I do not know what happened or where that boat is today.

In conclusion, my old boat was fast enough for my purposes. She was not at all what was projected by the factory or former sales agent. The earlier models were much lighter by design. Therefore, the estimated speeds for a SF50 would depend on the year and payload.

I do miss my old boat every day.

[catalystcat]

I just finished a trip of about 2700nm heading S from VA to Grenada on my SF in addition to a lot of other trips we've done including things like rounding Hatteras and Gulf Stream crossings. I think I have a pretty good grasp of how it sails in almost all conditions. This boat sails super well.

And while I'm OK at trimming sails, I am not a master of sail trim. When my friend the racer gets on the boat, he can regularly coax an extra half a knot or more (maybe even a full knot) out of my boat. The following examples were all done without the benefit of my racing friend's skills.

When properly trimmed, the boat really moves. As one example, leaving San Salvador and heading E into an AWA of between 40 and 60 and AWS of about 20kts, we held 7-8+ kts for about 15 hrs. It was definitely "sporty," but, the boat really handled well with waves at about 50degrees (varying throughout). Our friends in another cat were 9nm back in the evening (they needed fuel as they had to use an engine to hold the AWA). By midday the next day, they were 49nm back.

The ability to sail fast at that angle made a huge difference in the wear and tear on my wife and me (and our Shelty). BTW - we were loaded for a marathon sail - lots of food, water, fuel, tools., etc.

On reaches is where it really loves to be. Heading from Iles de Saintes we were behind a Lagoon 42(?) at 60-70AWA. We averaged 8kts. They were at 4.8kts.

When you have it dialed in, the boat will really move on almost any reach between 45 and 130 degrees. The speed drops abruptly at 30-35 degrees.

Downwind, it really needs a downwind sail. It comes with an Asym. We added an Oxley Bora. It's not quite as fast as the Asym or the Oxley Levante, but it is super easy to manage and handles easily. Makes long passages a lot less tiring.

Now, it's not an Outremer or a Gunboat. For example, we left Charleston about 3 nm ahead of a 59 or 60' Gunboat, and it left us in the dust, averaging about 1.5kts more in moderate reaching conditions. It was out of sight in about 6hrs.

Along this trip we have sailed alongside or near to a lot of other boats. Near Martinique we sailed alongside a Balance and pretty much sailed in tandem. (I'd guess that they could have trimmed it a bit and outrun us.) We fell behind an Outremer a couple of times. And we pretty regularly passed the Charter Leopards and Lagoons.

On that same trip, we sailed in tandem with another SF from Hatteras to Charleston and we both held 7plus in about 11kts onshore. Once again, pretty loaded up with weight.

Last week, just after finishing the VA to Grenada slog including the marathon upwind from the Exumas to St Maarten, I told my friends I was super happy to have a relatively quick, super seaworthy boat that handled the seas well and took a few poundings without complaint.

As for other SF boats, my friend left my dock in Stuart this year and was anchored in Nassau (225nm) 26hrs later, for an average speed of 8.65kts. (This was not a sail for the faint hearted as he was running with a big weather front with 23-33kt winds).

As for the demo boat mentioned above, the only one I know of that had those issues was one where the buyer had strong (overwhelmingly) opinions about a lot of things, including cutting the mast to ICW height and adding a bunch of heavy add-ons (e.g., hydraulic lift; extra fuel tank in the forepeak, big compressor, oversized engines, extra full size refrigerator, etc.).

[Dudley]

Originally Posted by caradow

Does anyone have any knowledge on cruising speeds on a 50 ft St Francis?
Would be interested to see various speeds with varying wind velocities.

I have Sailed and Delivered a number of different Catamarans. In its Class the St St Francis 50 performs way better than most others. When the 48 was extended to 50ft it wasn't just made longer. More volume was added from the keels then extended to the transom. This made for more load carrying especially aft and preventing it from squatting . .The most impressive thing is the speed in light winds. On the last Delivery on Nawa for example we were doing around 6kts in 8kts and around 10kts in 14kts of true wind.
I know that the boat before Nawa was very heavy with a lot of equipment onboard and did not perform well but that's with all Cats. One of the other things about the 50 is the safety aspect, we got caught in a storm sailing from Cape Town back to St Francis,wind was over 65kts,the swell was huge with peaks breaking,we were surfing down waves at over 26kts into the back of other waves without burying the bows. The St Francis 50 would be my first choice to take a family cruising...

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

From my understanding when discussing the boat with a former owner of a recent hull, the performance wasn’t quite what he had hoped for and the boat was significantly heavier than advertised.

That being said I would anticipate the sailing performance being very similar to a Lagoon 52 Sport Top.

They are very nice boats, but if you are not looking for a performance type boat, I’d also suggest looking at Knysna right down the road from St. Francis.

A St Francis is not a performance boar, but it will significantly, significantly, better than a Lagoon 52. I have done a couple of passages on St Francis 50, good boats.

[Nano]

Hi, excuse my English I am Spaniard.

I have raced sailboat all my life mostly cats since the teens. I own Nawa a 2022 SF 50 so I am biased. Biased yes, but I have done (during 7 Years) a deep research and test in the 45-50 feet Cats to the point I would normally new more than some of the company reps at the Boatshows and have enormous amount of data, info and videos besides yards visits and testing.

I want to circumnavigate only with my wife. My criteria for choosing is to find a good balance on the different compromises to take when acquiring. This are in order my must haves

1. Sea Worthy, Sea Kindly for short hand and cover under sun and storms
2. Speed definitively above the mass production cats.
3. Robust and quality build to last and well resale
4. Space for 8 pax (I have a big family for visits). You might ask more for a 50’ …I dont.

Money within limits was not a dealbreaker.

NOTE: All ST Francis 50 are different since the yard is willing to resolve customer requests. I have being in the boat that Rorke mentioned and it was not build to sail but to use as a power cat…I dont understand why the yard accepted going that far…but all SF that I know besides this are built for sailors and have nothing to do with the mentioned. I dont understand why the owner choose a fabulous sailing boat besides other brands with bigger hulls.

St Francis 50 is about Grace, Space and Pace.

This is how I see Nawa:

GRACE (in sailing) its about being ¨calmer”, totally solvent and protected than the nervous fast Cats under heavy South African seas and winds…..and fast enough not to start the engines because you can sail at 6kn with 8kns with a loaded boat. Not many boats can achieve both really. In a storm is espectacular, how protected and how the boat moves. The bows never sink even in the very very violent seas.

SPACE (for sailors) Not a palace and cargo capacity that the Lagoon offers but not the limits in living and cargo that the Outremer allows. I dont need to tell you how big are the compromises on both ends. This is when choosing a 50 vs a 45 you can allow for a small crew to get closer to both worlds.

PACE The ST 50 with vertical (3%) bows will do more than 200M with 12Kns and very calmly…Higher winds I dont really care…Grace becomes priority then. But most importantly the boat can easily do 6 loaded with 8 and this is really important for what I want.

So whoever thinks is a slow boat is soundly mistaken and haven’t sail this boat…It’s closer to the racing family than to the heavy cats (luxury or mass production). Just for a reference under power 2x57hp at 3000 does 10.5Kns loaded and 13Kns light…this talks about the key feature on this boat….the hulls. Please see one if you can out of the water. How many cruising sailing cats that you know can do that? And this is easy to test.

So this boat is by far the best balance between seaworthy, speed and space that I have ever seen…and I can say that I have being and have information in almost all 45-50 before 2022.

Again apologies for killing your beautiful language.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by Factor

A St Francis is not a performance boar, but it will significantly, significantly, better than a Lagoon 52. I have done a couple of passages on St Francis 50, good boats.

They are very nice boats, and if (like all other catamarans) they are not overloaded they will perform above average. The numbers discussed above are great, but not to the level that performance cats will, which is still more than good enough.

I would very simply suggest to anyone considering purchasing an SF50 to ask the builder if they will guarantee the displacement in the build contract. If they do, then great, other higher end builders do this, if they won’t, it should give you pause.

Not all boats boats are fitted out the same either, so one SF50 could be 2T lighter than another, all stuff to be considered.

[donradcliffe]

Its not just about speed. I like the looks of the St Francis far better than a Lagoon or Bali.

[Bill Gibbs]

Doubt factory data.
Recognize subjective opinions as just that, subjective.
Get a real weight in sailing trim, and real sail areas. This allows a rough comparison to other boats.
Out in SoCal I use a VPP to rate multis for handicap racing. We have a number of cruising cats racing, Lagoons, Moorings, and a new Excess 11. These ratings backed by race data form an accurate speed comparison. Got any accurate boat data?

[dwightsusan]

Originally Posted by caradow

Does anyone have any knowledge on cruising speeds on a 50 ft St Francis?
Would be interested to see various speeds with varying wind velocities.

Can't address your question specifically in re a 50 ft. St. Francis, but i have strong feelings about large sailing catamarans, having co-designed and co- built our "Wild 45" (51 ft. from tip of bowsprit to trailing edge of rudders). HIGH SPEED, LOW COST, or CREATURE COMFORT: you can only have one. Light weight is the essential key to high speed. Other design features such as large sail area, high aspect rig, low wetted hull surfaces, retractable dagger boards, narrow hull beam at waterline, high overall beam to hull length, and careful attention to hull shape below waterline contribute. A rarity is a 50 ft. (+/-) cruising cat which can maintain more than 6-8 kn. in fair winds or more than 4-5 kn. on long passages.

























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[rescher]

On Aphrodite, SF50 hull #1, we generally do about 8 knots with 15 knots of wind on the beam. Today in about 20 knots we were doing 10. But then we’re fairly heavily loaded as a family of six circumnavigating.

[rescher]

Here are the polars for a St Francis 50. https://pasteboard.co/jO1xoXdtzJyn.jpg