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Old 11-10-2024, 10:05   #46
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

Howdy Pilgrim,
You mentioned, “head across the Pacific and beyond” with outboard engines which I guess will be gasoline (petrol) powered? Bad idea. You can carry neither enough gasoline to make meaningful distance nor enough to outrun / avoid bad weather. Go with traditional diesel inboards, or stay coastal and stick with the gasoline outboards IMOH. Whatever happens, I hope you have fair winds and kindly seas.
Kind regards,
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Old 11-10-2024, 10:18   #47
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Originally Posted by Catalacmarc View Post
I have owned two cruising cats, a Catalac 9M and currently own a PDQ 36. Both are outboard powered by Yamaha 9.9s. The motors are reliable, easy to do the basic repairs and economical to run. Had the 9M's outboard linked to the rudders which made it extremely handy under power. I think my PDQ is more of a coastal cruiser, not a tough as the 9M. The 9M had it's twin inboards removed which improved it's performance and gave increased storage.

Older model 9.9s were 15 HP units tuned down to 9.9 and could generate 10 amps a piece. Newer models are tuned up 8 HP and only generate 6 amps each. as low use older model 9.9s are getting hard to come by, I recently repowered. Went fro producing 20 amps to 12. The PDQs' wells were designed around remote controlled manual tilt 9.9s which are no longer produced but there are atleast two firms who convert the current manual tilt motors to remote control. not all makes of outboard fit in unmodified wells.

Also 9.9s don't do well with standing sea water. Unless flushed, Old models accumulate salt in the upper portion of the leg to the point that the salt can both eat a hole through the leg and crack the casting. New models can be flushed with a hose fitting.

For the cruising I do, this is fine, moor on the freshwater side of locks. But long distances over salt with no real place to stow 50 gal gas tanks?
The T9.9xwhb is the Yamaha high thrust 9.9 with 25” shaft, tiller steered and manual tilt. Yamaha makes a tiller to remote kit for about $100 which is easy to install.
The main problem with salt water corrosion in the cooling jackets of the 9.9 is letting the salt crystallize. If you run the motors up to operating temp about once a week this seems to keep the corrosion at bay as it doesn’t allow the salt time to crystallize.
On our recently purchased Seawind 1000 we pulled the Yamaha 9.9’s and went with the Tohatsu 20hp. The Tohatsu’s are only a couple pounds heavier, have a significantly higher displacement and are EFI. So far the Tohatsu’s seem to have a great reputation with the Australian Seawind owners and we splash in a few days so are looking forward to the change,
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Old 11-10-2024, 13:57   #48
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

The Yammies are great engines - and I am my friends have had no issues with salt. As said above the main reason is long running every now and then. This gets the motor able to disssolve all the accumulated salt and get the galleries clean. My 25 is about 15 years old and has been flushed about three times - she still runs really well and there are no signs at all of corrosion or salt build up (in outboards you often get signs of salt build up, with hot galleries, discoloration of the paint and maybe poor telltale). So don't worry about the outboards and salt, just run them for a couple of hours in a calm every now and then.

A mate of mine is a bit of an expert on these engines. He buys them and strips them and most of the old engines have few issues with salt build up but there have been some issues with the pan under the powerhead on a few. He likes the old derated 15s and keeps his running well but they are getting on now.

The new 9.9s are a little aneamic - hence my interest in the 25s. I would be interested in the Tohatsus and reverse thrust. WE used to have a single 25 Honday - a lovely engine with a small prop. When it was replaced with the Yammie 25 reverse was about three times more grunt. In going up to a different motor, prop choice will be a really important part of the equation.

On real problem with the Yammie 9.9s is their rectifier/regulators are rubbish. They put out about 15.5 volts. So I replaced it with another that puts out 15 volts. So to protect the starter battery I have removed the regulator and charge from the main bettery with a little charger. The 25 has a nice regulator and I cam measure it flicking around 14.4V - all good, but the one on the 9.9 has caused me some serious investigation - this is not a rare problem at all. I don't care about the amount of charge created, it is negligible, but it would have been nice to keep the starter topped up.

AS for crossing oceans with outboards - remember - outboards allow you to sail faster, so you do what you cat does and sail. I have three sets of friends who have circumnavigated the globe on cats. Each cat was outboard powered - one had two 25 Hondas but the other two were powered by Yammie 9.9s. You certainly do not need a diesel to sail long distance. If you think like a powerboater - get diesels, if you can think like a sailor and be happy only being able to motor up to about 2-300 miles you will be fine with outboards.

Pitching in waves is not something I worry too much about - because I sail to windward in waves. There is a little but of a blur when we are in choppy inshore waters but even here I prefer to have less power available here and better sailing everywhere else. You have work out where your compromise is - but outboard cats always have clean props, no problems with folding props, no problems with electrolysis and the ability to pop a even a daggerboard cat on the bottom and clean it to make the boat go better under power. It isn't as simple as diesels have more grunt.

BTW Tupaia - I recieved your comment midway through the Coppercoat process - the removal of antifoul was the worst thing about the process. It was truly the worst thing I have ever done in 25 years of boatbuilding/maintenance. I hope I get a different outcome from you, with all the effort involved.
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Old 11-10-2024, 14:17   #49
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Originally Posted by WaterJim View Post
Between a Seawind 1160 (twin inboard diesels) and 1160 Lite (twin outboard gas), is the Lite a “worse” choice for passages, due to the engines? They’re over my budget, so just for directly comparing engine differences. I hope to mostly just use engines in marinas/harbors and weather-related, not to motor sail.
My direct experience on multihulls is exceptionally limited, so I may be full of crap. But, when we were buying our current boat (monohull) a few cats caught our eye. The FP Casamanche (very old, very rare, larger than your goal), the Voyage 440 (also larger than your goal) were boats that may have sailed well at prices I could afford (your budget, +/-). The Seawinds are beyond awesome, I suspect they sail very well. Their idea of "galley down" has much more connection to the bridge deck than other designs. The Maine Cat is an awesome boat, but I really think that entirely open bridge deck is scary.


You commented on using the engines in a very limited fashion. It doesn't always work with cruising. In 22, on the last 1/3 of the Down East Circle, we went from Halifax NS to the Connecticut River and only sailed ONE DAY! Winds are often incompatible with a desire to make time. To make matters worse, I have a strong suspicion, based on watching boats on the water, that production cruising cats from 2000 and newer are very poor sailing performers on most points of sail/wind speeds, and motoring is much more common. I don't want to start a catamaran bashing debate -- every boat has its target audience and cruising cats are very posh platforms to "live" on. My 43' cruising monohull will make 8kts in kts true wind (with "perfect" conditions/point of sail!), I'll happily go head-to-head with any 40-45' FP/Lagoon/Leapord from 2000 on. The hulls I mentioned in the first paragraph are ones that seemed to me to have performance potential.


I forget now where I found it (it's been 5 years since I've been in the market) but there are some performance metrics that are published for multihulls, you might want to find them. As I recall, it's a one-number indicator of boat speed -- allows you to compare expected speed from one design to another. I used the US Sailing PHRF handicap rating for looking for a monohull -- I set a hard requirement of a PHRF below 100 (higher numbers are slower). None of these handicaps/performance metrics are anything short of laughable, but they still do give an indication of comparable performance. Find that refernce, keep it close.


Ah, I think I found the source, but don't feel like figuring out why I can't log in. Try https://multihulldynamics.com/comparison/
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Old 11-10-2024, 14:27   #50
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

These guys installed the Tohatsu 20s and had a bit of trouble sorting out the differences between thrust and speed.

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Old 11-10-2024, 17:52   #51
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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These guys installed the Tohatsu 20s and had a bit of trouble sorting out the differences between thrust and speed.

Just watched that. I spoke to a friend that sailed his Seawind 1000 from North Carolina US, through the Panama Canal and to the S Pacific. He then sailed to Hawaii where he sold the boat. He installed Tohatsu 9.9’s which are de tuned 20’s before he left. He said no thrust with the standard 3 blade props, but after changing out to the 4 blade high thrust props he said they had more thrust than the high thrust Yamaha 9.9’s. He loved the motors and hopefully we will as well. Yes, he sailed oceans with outboards!
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Old 13-10-2024, 06:01   #52
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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I'm not against diesels, but don't have much experience and they are heavier, costly repairs, and more potential for issues (zincs, saildrives/through-hulls, folding props, access, etc.).
Disagree with a passion. Diesels are easy to maintain, use far less fuel per hp, have better thrust, can run a full season with one prep - if maintained, are quieter, typically per hp, generate more electricity, are less dangerous when inboard.

Would never be without my diesel. Even cold weather starts are a dream.

Also, more parts and maintenance options internationally.
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Old 13-10-2024, 09:28   #53
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Disagree with a passion. Diesels are easy to maintain, use far less fuel per hp, have better thrust, can run a full season with one prep - if maintained, are quieter, typically per hp, generate more electricity, are less dangerous when inboard.

Would never be without my diesel. Even cold weather starts are a dream.

Also, more parts and maintenance options internationally.
But a great option for a catamaran designed for outboard use, especially a performance cat with the reduced weight and no drag.
Do you think it would be easier to find parts or maintenance for an inboard diesel vs a Yamaha outboard? I’m skeptical…….
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Old 13-10-2024, 09:48   #54
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

Since outboards outnumber diesel engines by a factor of at least 50:1 on boats and are used by locals in the most remote parts of the planet, i also find it hard to believe parts and maintenance would be an issue
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Old 13-10-2024, 10:30   #55
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Disagree with a passion. Diesels are easy to maintain, use far less fuel per hp, have better thrust, can run a full season with one prep - if maintained, are quieter, typically per hp, generate more electricity, are less dangerous when inboard.

Would never be without my diesel. Even cold weather starts are a dream.

Also, more parts and maintenance options internationally.

Diesels are far more trouble and expensive to run.



Pencil anode (6 months) $10 x 2 $20
Engine Oil (1 year) $50
Oil filter (1 year) $20
Heat exchanger seals (1 year) $40
Coolant (1 year) $40
Injector clean (5 years) $500 / 5 $100
Primary fuel filter $15
Main fuel filter $15
Air filter $25

Total $325

Saildrive anode (1 year) $40
Sail drive oil (1 year) $50
Oil (1 year) $50
Drain plug o-ring $5
Main seal (7 years) $210 / 7 $30
Shaft seals (1 year) $80

Total £260


Times 2 if you have a cat and the haul out circa $1200


No labour is included in the above but it is considerable even without labour and running maybe 50-100 hrs per year, a lot for a cat, that equates to around $25 per hour. Fuel savings over petrol are insignificant.


Nearly every part of a modern diesel is a specialist part. You either have to carry spares (extra weight) or wait for them to be delivered.



Most cats don't relay on their engines for electricity as the engine hours are minimal.
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Old 14-10-2024, 07:14   #56
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

Outboards may be a better choice for various reasons, but exaggeration is a poor way to prove it.



I've got over 1000 hours on my diesel in the last 5 years, and have yet to even consider injector servicing. If, as you indicate, catamarans run closer to 50-100 hours per year, injector service is probably closer to once every couple decades.


My Yanmar has no pencil anodes.


Heat exchanger seals, annually? Huh? I had to do mine for the first time this year because I shredded my raw water impeller.


Annual coolant? Perhaps. Maybe recommended. But there is a huge difference between "recommended" and "actual service." I wonder what percentage of users here on CF change their diesel coolant annually, especially on engines run 50 hours a year.


Outboards have no fuel filters? Ouch! Note, I'm a bit counter culture here. Yanmar recommends the filter on the engine, and no other filter. I have a really nice, far superior Racor. When my engine mounted fuel filter got in the way, I simply removed it (why is a Racor alone inadequate, if Yanmar recommends their lousy filter alone?) Also, my Racor (based on vacuum readings) is good for 100-200 gallons (or more) between changes -- so at 50 hours per year, about a 4 year change interval, not annual.


Air filter on a diesel? What brand has that?


Labor -- I spend an easy 2-4 hours a year on maintenance on my engine. Change oil/filter, winterize it, a fuel filter as needed.



Haulout? Not sure how this is engine related. I pull my boat every 3-4 years for bottom paint, and schedule all my underwater work to coincide with that.


Electricity? Cats need as much electricity as monos (probably more). Yes, you can probably get more solar on a cat. I have enough solar to be nearly autonomous, but I sure do like seeing 250A going into my battery when I start up the engine with low batteries!



A diesel is good for about 10,000 hours, +/-. On a cat that runs 100 hours a year, that's a full 100 years (yeah, realistically it will rot in under 50 years). How many years is an outboard good for, and what is the amortized replacement cost?


But the biggest thing, if the $60 annual difference in maintenance cost is "far more expensive to run," well, you have a different idea than I of what is "expensive" on a boat.


Oh, and it is worth noting that gas at my local marina is about $1.25/gallon more than diesel. Factor that in.


Of course, there are huge pricing anomalies with regard to horsepower. A 10hp outboard can be bolted on the back of my dinghy for $3K, done -- I'd hate to think what it would take to put a 10hp diesel in my dinghy. But at the other end, a 50hp Beta is $4600 (plus installation) vs a 50hp Tohatsu at about $7K (and that also has "installation"), the numbers are much closer.


If I had a catamaran that could be pushed with a pair of 9.8 hp outboards (a smaller Seawind, for instance), I'd be really tempted to go with outboards. If I had a cat that needed a pair of 30+ hp engines (a Lagoon 40, for instance), I'd much rather have a diesel -- and shaft drive if I could get it!).


Finally, I really doubt the argument that "cats don't run their engines much." Ask Rivet, or Chotu, what their annual engine hours are. My personal observations is I see engine exhaust from almost every cat I see, whether sails up or down.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
Diesels are far more trouble and expensive to run.



Pencil anode (6 months) $10 x 2 $20
Engine Oil (1 year) $50
Oil filter (1 year) $20
Heat exchanger seals (1 year) $40
Coolant (1 year) $40
Injector clean (5 years) $500 / 5 $100
Primary fuel filter $15
Main fuel filter $15
Air filter $25

Total $325

Saildrive anode (1 year) $40
Sail drive oil (1 year) $50
Oil (1 year) $50
Drain plug o-ring $5
Main seal (7 years) $210 / 7 $30
Shaft seals (1 year) $80

Total £260


Times 2 if you have a cat and the haul out circa $1200


No labour is included in the above but it is considerable even without labour and running maybe 50-100 hrs per year, a lot for a cat, that equates to around $25 per hour. Fuel savings over petrol are insignificant.


Nearly every part of a modern diesel is a specialist part. You either have to carry spares (extra weight) or wait for them to be delivered.



Most cats don't relay on their engines for electricity as the engine hours are minimal.
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Old 14-10-2024, 07:41   #57
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

hey hey…. i didn’t have a rig! ha ha ha.

But i’ll drop my own outboard stats in here for a data point in the debate

Outboards are currently 11 years old. 2013 model 30hp Evinrude etecs with high thrust props

Weight: a little over 300lbs to get twin 30hp engines, all in. includes all running gear, props, everything needed to put 30hp per side into the water

Top speed 7 knots due to running out of prop. i hit the rev limiter and can’t go faster than 7 knots because of that. usually around 6 knots cruising speed

Maintenance history:

*a few impeller changes
*replaced thermostats
*replaced throttle position sensor on one of them

Hours: 600-700 hours (4000 nautical miles)

Obviously no oil changes due to the model i bought, but they do eat the 2 stroke oil
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Old 14-10-2024, 08:44   #58
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

Thanks again to everyone for the discussion.

Diesel makes up a larger (more vocal?) majority, but I still prefer twin long-leg outboards on a cat designed for them (<40’), and understand the pros and cons of both. I am after all, seeking a simpler sail boat, not a motor boat or condo. @catsketcher (#37) summed it up better than I could.

@CatStephen I saw a TomCat and really like it, but feel it may be on the small side for passages. Perfect for Great Lakes or coastal though.

@smj - Thanks for the details about Tohatsu 20s compared to Yamaha High Thrust 9.9s. That extra power may be nice to have if needed (adverse weather, etc.).
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Old 14-10-2024, 10:59   #59
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Outboards may be a better choice for various reasons, but exaggeration is a poor way to prove it.

I've had petrol and diesel on the same boat.

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
I've got over 1000 hours on my diesel in the last 5 years, and have yet to even consider injector servicing. If, as you indicate, catamarans run closer to 50-100 hours per year, injector service is probably closer to once every couple decades.

Little use is worse for a diesel than lots of use. I had 750hours (10 years) and 1300hours (15 years) almost all full time live aboard so average 80 hours/year. This is actually bad for an engine a diesel will be more reliable if run for many hours and allowed to reach full temperature. This never really happens on a cat (certainly on mine) as it is used to anchor and park, never ever motor-sailed.

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My Yanmar has no pencil anodes.

Mine do and need changing, lightweight diesel.

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Heat exchanger seals, annually? Huh? I had to do mine for the first time this year because I shredded my raw water impeller.

Another thing more related to cats and low hours where salt build up is much more prevalent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Annual coolant? Perhaps. Maybe recommended. But there is a huge difference between "recommended" and "actual service." I wonder what percentage of users here on CF change their diesel coolant annually, especially on engines run 50 hours a year.

Diesels are delicate things when not worked hard so have always replaced the coolant as part of the annual service.

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Outboards have no fuel filters? Ouch! Note, I'm a bit counter culture here. Yanmar recommends the filter on the engine, and no other filter. I have a really nice, far superior Racor. When my engine mounted fuel filter got in the way, I simply removed it (why is a Racor alone inadequate, if Yanmar recommends their lousy filter alone?) Also, my Racor (based on vacuum readings) is good for 100-200 gallons (or more) between changes -- so at 50 hours per year, about a 4 year change interval, not annual.
In line filter on the petrol engines, take out compressed air refit never replaced them. Racor and primary, typically replaced annually but have clogged twice due to bug in bio fuel and I am meticulous about adding stabilizer.

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Air filter on a diesel? What brand has that?
My mistake the petrol engines had air filters that did affect the performance.

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Labor -- I spend an easy 2-4 hours a year on maintenance on my engine. Change oil/filter, winterize it, a fuel filter as needed.
It takes me a full day to do both including the heat exchangers.

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Haulout? Not sure how this is engine related. I pull my boat every 3-4 years for bottom paint, and schedule all my underwater work to coincide with that.
Most diesels on cats use sail drives, the shaft seals are a PTA and require the boat to be hauled or at the very least beached. Replacing the big rubber seals every 7 years (for no good reason) but is an easy get out from an insurance claim if not done.

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Electricity? Cats need as much electricity as monos (probably more). Yes, you can probably get more solar on a cat. I have enough solar to be nearly autonomous, but I sure do like seeing 250A going into my battery when I start up the engine with low batteries!
Cats have lots of solar. Using the engine to charge has to be a monohull thing, never suffered from low batteries that required running an engine, in fact until I changed to Li my engines started from the house bank, no start batteries. You could hand start my petrol engines but I never needed to.

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
A diesel is good for about 10,000 hours, +/-. On a cat that runs 100 hours a year, that's a full 100 years (yeah, realistically it will rot in under 50 years). How many years is an outboard good for, and what is the amortized replacement cost?
But with low hours they don't last very long. Had my injectors done at 1100 hours causing bad running. New ones were warranteed for 12 months or 3 months if used with bio diesel.

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But the biggest thing, if the $60 annual difference in maintenance cost is "far more expensive to run," well, you have a different idea than I of what is "expensive" on a boat.
Oh, and it is worth noting that gas at my local marina is about $1.25/gallon more than diesel. Factor that in.
Diesel here is £1.30 ($1.70) PER LTR = $6.46 per US gal
Petrol is a little cheaper £1.20 per litre.
My petrol engines used 2.3l/h and my diesels 1.9l/h (mineral) 2.2l/h (bio)


Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Of course, there are huge pricing anomalies with regard to horsepower. A 10hp outboard can be bolted on the back of my dinghy for $3K, done -- I'd hate to think what it would take to put a 10hp diesel in my dinghy. But at the other end, a 50hp Beta is $4600 (plus installation) vs a 50hp Tohatsu at about $7K (and that also has "installation"), the numbers are much closer.
Cat engines are typically quite small (30hp) so the installation costs relative to the size is much greater and there are usually two of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
If I had a catamaran that could be pushed with a pair of 9.8 hp outboards (a smaller Seawind, for instance), I'd be really tempted to go with outboards. If I had a cat that needed a pair of 30+ hp engines (a Lagoon 40, for instance), I'd much rather have a diesel -- and shaft drive if I could get it!).
The primary difference here is windage and weight, the current crop of cruising cats are heavy and have the aerodynamics of a shed. This makes a big difference. I am amazed at the large sizes engines that are being installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Finally, I really doubt the argument that "cats don't run their engines much." Ask Rivet, or Chotu, what their annual engine hours are. My personal observations is I see engine exhaust from almost every cat I see, whether sails up or down.
I think this is the real argument. Most off the self cats don't sail very well and are fitted with bigger and bigger engines, a vicious circle. More motor sailers than sailing boats, but that's what people want.


I changed from petrol to diesel and hate it. It was a necessary change because physical limitations. The running and operation of the petrol engines was far less problematic than that required for the diesels. The other thing that needs to be considered is the imposition of bio diesel, this is maintenance nightmare especially in less developed countries. An injector failure is bad a carburetor clean not so much.

There is a case for diesel in bigger sizes where petrol equivalents do not exist. Transmission of power to the water is also a issue for very shallow draft cats, the reason for my change to diesel, getting the prop sufficiently deep enough to avoid cavitation is a major challenge.

It is horses for courses but diesels are certainly not the ultimate solution and come with a whole host of maintenance issues when used in a cat that can sail.
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Old 14-10-2024, 17:42   #60
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Outboards may be a better choice for various reasons, but exaggeration is a poor way to prove it.



I've got over 1000 hours on my diesel in the last 5 years, and have yet to even consider injector servicing. If, as you indicate, catamarans run closer to 50-100 hours per year, injector service is probably closer to once every couple decades.


My Yanmar has no pencil anodes.


Heat exchanger seals, annually? Huh? I had to do mine for the first time this year because I shredded my raw water impeller.


Annual coolant? Perhaps. Maybe recommended. But there is a huge difference between "recommended" and "actual service." I wonder what percentage of users here on CF change their diesel coolant annually, especially on engines run 50 hours a year.


Outboards have no fuel filters? Ouch! Note, I'm a bit counter culture here. Yanmar recommends the filter on the engine, and no other filter. I have a really nice, far superior Racor. When my engine mounted fuel filter got in the way, I simply removed it (why is a Racor alone inadequate, if Yanmar recommends their lousy filter alone?) Also, my Racor (based on vacuum readings) is good for 100-200 gallons (or more) between changes -- so at 50 hours per year, about a 4 year change interval, not annual.


Air filter on a diesel? What brand has that?


Labor -- I spend an easy 2-4 hours a year on maintenance on my engine. Change oil/filter, winterize it, a fuel filter as needed.



Haulout? Not sure how this is engine related. I pull my boat every 3-4 years for bottom paint, and schedule all my underwater work to coincide with that.


Electricity? Cats need as much electricity as monos (probably more). Yes, you can probably get more solar on a cat. I have enough solar to be nearly autonomous, but I sure do like seeing 250A going into my battery when I start up the engine with low batteries!



A diesel is good for about 10,000 hours, +/-. On a cat that runs 100 hours a year, that's a full 100 years (yeah, realistically it will rot in under 50 years). How many years is an outboard good for, and what is the amortized replacement cost?


But the biggest thing, if the $60 annual difference in maintenance cost is "far more expensive to run," well, you have a different idea than I of what is "expensive" on a boat.


Oh, and it is worth noting that gas at my local marina is about $1.25/gallon more than diesel. Factor that in.


Of course, there are huge pricing anomalies with regard to horsepower. A 10hp outboard can be bolted on the back of my dinghy for $3K, done -- I'd hate to think what it would take to put a 10hp diesel in my dinghy. But at the other end, a 50hp Beta is $4600 (plus installation) vs a 50hp Tohatsu at about $7K (and that also has "installation"), the numbers are much closer.


If I had a catamaran that could be pushed with a pair of 9.8 hp outboards (a smaller Seawind, for instance), I'd be really tempted to go with outboards. If I had a cat that needed a pair of 30+ hp engines (a Lagoon 40, for instance), I'd much rather have a diesel -- and shaft drive if I could get it!).


Finally, I really doubt the argument that "cats don't run their engines much." Ask Rivet, or Chotu, what their annual engine hours are. My personal observations is I see engine exhaust from almost every cat I see, whether sails up or down.
You must’ve looked up 1984 prices? Try $20k
https://marinesystemsstore.com/products/beta-50
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