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Old 07-10-2024, 15:04   #31
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
My boat had 2 x 2stroke in-boards, a real dream, no maintenance no oil changes, just a box of spark plugs, hated the day we converted to diesel. We got a discount on our insurance for NOT having gas (butane/propane) but no penalty for having gasolene (petrol) engines. All of the tankage (50gals) was over the bridge deck and the compartment had no electrics in it.
No impeller means aircooled 2 stroke inboard, agree a dream and I would restore it if broken at all cost.
Why did you went diesel?
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Old 07-10-2024, 15:05   #32
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
My boat had 2 x 2stroke in-boards, a real dream, no maintenance no oil changes, just a box of spark plugs, hated the day we converted to diesel. We got a discount on our insurance for NOT having gas (butane/propane) but no penalty for having gasolene (petrol) engines. All of the tankage (50gals) was over the bridge deck and the compartment had no electrics in it.
No maintenance means no impeller = aircooled 2 stroke inboard, agree a dream and I would restore it if broken at all cost. For that I would accept anytime a gasoline tank.
Why did you went diesel?
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Old 07-10-2024, 15:52   #33
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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math check: yanmar 2gm20f 18hp 260lbs (dry) or 2ym15 14hp 250lbs, plus sd25 65lbs (gearbox weight similar for shaft drive), so twin yanmar diesels you're well over 600+ lbs at minimum
beta (kubota) 20, 230lbs (dry), volvo D1/md2020, (perkins, shibaura) 2cyl similar or heavier than yanmars

suzuki 20hp efi ~120lbs (wet, power tilt), honda/tohatsu 50/60hp ~215lbs
(other modern options in between the those two points like yamaha 25ht ~160lbs)


Marine environment is not really suitable use-case for a 5-10kw "portable" generator, gas or diesel. The 1-2kw honda inverter generator that you might use to run some tools or other projects - is not in any way comparable. So you are talking a permanent install- ~3200rpm compact 5kw class marine diesel generators exist from companies such as northern lights. New, they will cost ya. one of the most compact/light (diesel) platforms is the kubota "super mini" base engine, though I'm certainly not up to date.
I converted to kilo abd there numbers lined up.

So you wanna combine gas outboards with diesel generators, that's even worse as you need different tanks for both.

Hondas are used for decades now on boats as occasional or even regular backup, absolutely no doubt they are sufficent for that and you simply charge batteries. Main charge source is solar. Absolutely no need for a permanently installed marine generator and it's additonally maintenance. That you need if you want eletric engines and the gen runs them when propulsion batteries are empty or for long distances where the batteries are not enough. Or when batteries are not enough and you run equipment straight of the gen like aircons the whole time.

So if you have gas outboards and main charnge source solar the honda fits perfect, you can connect it then to you main gas tank as range extender and run it when necessary so don't have to refill it's internal tank.
We also used the honda every race weekend where it was running with an range extender from friday till Sunday evening straight without any break, no issues.
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Old 08-10-2024, 01:08   #34
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
No maintenance means no impeller = aircooled 2 stroke inboard, agree a dream and I would restore it if broken at all cost. For that I would accept anytime a gasoline tank.
Why did you went diesel?

Shallow draft and angle of the shafts meant the propellers were to close to the surface so cavitated. By changing to saildrives we were able to get the propellers 15cm deeper and with folding props still be within the hull draft.
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Old 08-10-2024, 02:46   #35
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
Shallow draft and angle of the shafts meant the propellers were to close to the surface so cavitated. By changing to saildrives we were able to get the propellers 15cm deeper and with folding props still be within the hull draft.
Could you not adapt the 2 stroke inboard to a saildrive instead gearbox+shaft?
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Old 08-10-2024, 04:07   #36
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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Could you not adapt the 2 stroke inboard to a saildrive instead gearbox+shaft?

I already had enough custom stuff on my boat, there is a big advantage to having standard stuff in far away places.
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Old 08-10-2024, 07:51   #37
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

I have had my 38ft twin outboard at for 24 years - lived on it for 4 years. Great boat.

As has been said before by others, I really like sitting inside the cabin when sailing. Our boat started off a little like the Seawind 1000 - with an open cabin. She now has a normal bridgdeck cabin but I made sure the new cabin still had the same great vision as the original. Get a great autopilot and you spend hardly any time a the helm. But the boat is safer as you walk around, keep an eye on things, keep yourself refreshed and happy. It's a great thing about boats this size - being able to con the boat from inside.

As for outboards - I wouldn't take diesels if you gave them to me. Let's take some of the issues some people have with outboards.

- explosion risk - this is a bit of a furfy. Almost all cruising boats carry petrol for their dinghies. The amount needed to produce the correct stochiometric measure for explosions is really low. So this is a risk for all cruisers - not just petrol powered ones.

So what do you do - it's super easy. Have you fuel tanks in the bridgdeck, vented straight down. Only a fool would have petrol fuel tanks in the hulls and I have not seen any petrol cat with this setup. With the tanks in the wing and vented, you are perfectly safe. Check the tanks are high up and vented and there is no issue at all.

- long range motoring - this is one area where petrol is not as good. But outboard powered cats are usually much better sailers. They don't carry shafts and folded props - so you don't need to motor as much as a diesel cat. We never motor into any headwinds above 8-10 knots offshore - we sail. Yes you have to carry an extra jerry can in a calm. We did that when crossing Bass Strait and motoring about 160 miles - its not a problem. When empty the spare cans are light and are stored in the bow.

- cost - my outboards are so much cheaper to run than my mate's diesels. I can sell mine and buy another to swap one out for the cost of my mates last diesel service. I can work on them and take them home. I can take them to a mechanic and save huge amounts on labour if needed. Heaps more parts and heaps of spares.

- I am just in the throes of changing my cat to Coppercoat. If it works I will not hae to slip my boat for 5 years or so. If you have diesels you still have to pull the boat out to check anodes, or replace gear oil, or because a cone clutch has gone bad.

Diesels have huge problems with them along with advantages. If you like sailing, get a good sailing cat (look for daggerboards) and keep the bottom clean and the transom out of the water.

- Electrical generation - why would anyone want a generator? I had one 10 years ago and when it stopped I didn't replace it. Nowadays you can easily put 1000 watts of solar on your cat. Couple this with ovesrize lithiums and you won't run out of power. I have 400 watts and never have needed a generator - and we run a fridge and computers anchor winch etc.

- Reliability - Yamaha four stroke high thrust outboards are super reliable. In 24 years I have had one go bad on me, and that was because I had no fuel filter put dirty fuel into it. Within 30 minutes it was going again - no worries about injectors

- Smell, noise, hassle - diesel smell can penetrate an interior. Outboards are separate from the interior of the cat. If you have to work on one, you can lift it off and service it in the cockpit - better than ergonomic issues with many diesel installs.

I have a mate who has a nice diesel cat. He had owned two outboard powered Seawind 1000s. He likes his bigger boat but even though he is an engineer he prefers the outboards he had - they just don't fit on production boats over 35ft or so.

So listen to the people who have lived with outboards - if the installation is good and the sailers did not try to use them to motor offshore - they are a great setup. I don't care that my setup doesn't motor in heavy headwinds offshore wonderfully - my outboards are tucked up and away and we are doing what we love - sailing into the wind! We motor when we have to, not because we prefer it.
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Old 08-10-2024, 11:38   #38
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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- I am just in the throes of changing my cat to Coppercoat. If it works I will not hae to slip my boat for 5 years or so.

If you haven't done it read this first.


https://coppercoat.brucebalan.com/index.html


Pretty much identical to our experience.


If you have report back.
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Old 08-10-2024, 11:56   #39
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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...but offshore I would prefer small 3 cylinder diesels with a big alternator.

Have you not been paying attention on this forum for the past decade? I see you around often, so I know you do "attend."

3 cylinder engines are useless with BIG alternators because BIG ones don't fit on small three cylinder diesels. Dockhead has taught us about BIG alternators.

And catamarans are great for SOLAR which is what one requires for ocean sailing anyway. ICE for energy makes little sense these days.


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SOLO catamaran?!? Isn't that question an oxymoron? A 36 foot catamaran --- can it be considered functionally a good single handed boat? I'm sure qualified skippers could manage it, but it would seem to me to sure be tough, although if you're ocean sailing and not docking it isn't an issue...
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Old 08-10-2024, 12:09   #40
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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SOLO catamaran?!? Isn't that question an oxymoron? A 36 foot catamaran --- can it be considered functionally a good single handed boat? I'm sure qualified skippers could manage it, but it would seem to me to sure be tough, although if you're ocean sailing and not docking it isn't an issue...

Most cats sailed by couples over any distance are essentially single handed. You don't need more than one person on a well organised cat. Reefing, anchoring and docking is easily accomplished with good planning, probably with the exception of Med mooring but there is usually dockside help.
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Old 11-10-2024, 07:45   #41
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

I MHO the two best here are the seawind and PDQ36.
Galley down is better in bad weather and allows room for the saloon and chart table.
Petrol ⛽ outboards have many advantages, but also disadvantages - low electric power, need for lots of fuel. Need for greater safety while carrying etc.
Long distance has higher need for electric power. Lights, auto pilot, instruments radios etc. You can significantly reduce this problem by good size lithium battery bank and sized solar & wind resources.
I have had a petrol outboard cat, and a diesel outboard cat. I now have two inboard diesels and would not go back.
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Old 11-10-2024, 08:11   #42
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

I’ve always tried to understand how you keep an outboards prop in the water plowing into waves - let’s say square 9ft, not that big, but you’re fighting to clear a Lee shore…..
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Old 11-10-2024, 08:48   #43
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Tomcat 9.7

Consider the Tomcat 9.7. I have one and it ticks a lot of the boxes you have except for the galley up. Unique design. Very light (100% foam cored and vacuum bagged) and quick (seen 17 kts without spinnaker) with a manageable rig. All sail controls in cockpit. Very shoal draft. Very simple systems that are easy to maintain. Love mine. Didn't make a lot of them and believe builder is either out of business or on hiatus though I think their website is still active.

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Old 11-10-2024, 09:02   #44
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

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I’ve always tried to understand how you keep an outboards prop in the water plowing into waves - let’s say square 9ft, not that big, but you’re fighting to clear a Lee shore…..
Ultra-long shaft and big cavitation plates. Plus enough power to hold the stern down. With this set-up on my diesel outboard, pushing hard into a head sea, the boat pivoted on the outboard, rather than around the mast. This enabled me to power through the waves. It puts quite a strain on the outboard fixings, so you need to make sure that is really robust. Don't set up the outboard so that it turns when the rudder is turned, as you lose a lot of thrust that way. (although this does make it easier to pull off spectacular alongsides!).

If you are still not making any real progress, allow the course to pay-off 10-15 degrees, and progress should occur.

With this set-up I was able to make reasonable progress in the Solent against 42 knts wind - although somewhat sheltered, the adverse tide and shallow waters provide a very steep short slop renowned to make catamarans hobbyhorse.
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Old 11-10-2024, 09:17   #45
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Re: Solo, outboards, galley-up?

I have owned two cruising cats, a Catalac 9M and currently own a PDQ 36. Both are outboard powered by Yamaha 9.9s. The motors are reliable, easy to do the basic repairs and economical to run. Had the 9M's outboard linked to the rudders which made it extremely handy under power. I think my PDQ is more of a coastal cruiser, not a tough as the 9M. The 9M had it's twin inboards removed which improved it's performance and gave increased storage.

Older model 9.9s were 15 HP units tuned down to 9.9 and could generate 10 amps a piece. Newer models are tuned up 8 HP and only generate 6 amps each. as low use older model 9.9s are getting hard to come by, I recently repowered. Went fro producing 20 amps to 12. The PDQs' wells were designed around remote controlled manual tilt 9.9s which are no longer produced but there are atleast two firms who convert the current manual tilt motors to remote control. not all makes of outboard fit in unmodified wells.

Also 9.9s don't do well with standing sea water. Unless flushed, Old models accumulate salt in the upper portion of the leg to the point that the salt can both eat a hole through the leg and crack the casting. New models can be flushed with a hose fitting.

For the cruising I do, this is fine, moor on the freshwater side of locks. But long distances over salt with no real place to stow 50 gal gas tanks?
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