So I am thinking about a cat?

[stevensuf]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Palarran is for sale and would work pretty well based on your post.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...an-204234.html

There are several other forum members here who can vouch for the condition of the boat. PM me if you would like any additional info.

Very nice boat, but my budget is much lower, looking in the 40-44ft range!

[stevensuf]

Does anyone have any real experience of the lagoon 440, I like the idea of the flybridge, great for many reasons, but i feel if things kicked off, it is far to get to in an emergency and feel i dont fancy sitting up there in bad weather.

[CatNewBee]

We thought about a Lagoon 440, also about a Lagoon 420/421 and ended up in a Lagoon 400S2 owners version, sport bridge. I like the design of the sport bridge more, you can see and talk to the galley from the helm and are somewhat better protected. Visibility is OK, and the boom is lower and easier to handle. It is ideal for a couple with some space for guests or a small crew for passages, it easily sleeps 6.

The propane is a non-issue for us, we converted the galley to electric appliances (mid size convection oven, induction cooktop, microwave, ice maker, espresso machine, washing machine), the big door and sliding window is great for ventillation.

We have plenty of solar, (1650Wp), 7kW Onan generator, 4x A/C, watermaker, 5kW and 2kW inverter and LiFeYPO4 battery 1000Ah, also lots of kittchen toys.

So I would say, a great condomaran for liveaboard.

Galley down was a no-go for the admiral (looked at a Privilege), also checked out some Fountaine Pajot and Leopard Cats. The Lagoon was so far for us the best bang for the buck, and has the most space and beam for the 40ft lentgh.

But you have to check it out and compare different layouts and sizes to find what boat will fit you best.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by stevensuf

Does anyone have any real experience of the lagoon 440, I like the idea of the flybridge, great for many reasons, but i feel if things kicked off, it is far to get to in an emergency and feel i dont fancy sitting up there in bad weather.

I've sailed several Lagoons, (400, 410, 440 and 450F).
We own and liveaboard full time a Lagoon 450 F (Flybridge, 3 Cabin owners version) and LOVE IT! Had it for last 2 years now, and plan to for at least 3-4 more years at minimum.

So far, all the arguments against the Fly bridge (mostly communication), have proven either a non-event or trivial to workaround.
That said, we havn't crossed an ocean yet, and our most serious sea underway was 35kn and 3m waves, during which we felt totally safe on the bridge. With the right clears / bimini on the Flybridge, I have no real concerns sitting up there in bad weather.

We nearly bought a 440, but went with the 450F for the more modern/spacious design, (wife loves it), especially the bathrooms strangely enough. I also found it better in a seaway, though I expect there is not much in the two for that.
The fly bridge is also bit better, with a flatter 'hump' in the middle, and better stairs to access.

Of course best solution for 'bad weather' is don't be out in it in the first place. Sure it can happen.

That said, we spend 80% of our time at anchor, and day sail between places most of the time. The few overnight / multi-day passages we have done have also been fine on the Flybridge.

We find for most day sails, everyone is on the flybridge, and they really like it. Being able to see where we are going, and all around, rather than being stuck in the cockpit, looking aft. This is a huge plus on the Flybridge IMO.

We also nearly bought a 400, which would of been fine, though a little small for what we wanted, (Especially headroom). Also we couldn't both sit at the helm together, comfortably. This was a big negative for my wife. She hated being 'stuck in the cockpit looking aft' during day sails.

The 450 was our preferred size. I'm 6' 3" and I can stand up everywhere with no concerns.

I find the boat very solid, reliable (as reliable as boats are, there is always something to fix....), and sails ok. I can single hand it underway.

We have equipped out boat to live on it like we do at home, with a large solar array, and other mods. (see thread in Lagoon forum).

I'd buy one again.

If you really don't like the flybridge, the 450 Sport top is an excellent option, and if you can go a bit smaller, the Lagoon 400 is also a really nice boat.

Regards
Mark

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by stevensuf

Though last time we got knocked down by a microburst, which lead to the death of a french crew in a cat behind us, so i really want a barge of a boat that goes great downhill and whos mast will snap before it flips the boat.


Does a lagoon fit the bill?

Buy one with old sail. They will tear apart before the boat flips.

Really: The only thing that can help you in such a situation is a sharp lookout so you can drop sail before the white wall hits.

[JasonS]

We love our Manta 40. You should look at the Manta 40/42 depending on your needs. Set up very well for single handed sailing. Great owners group to help all the time. There are a few for sale right now the are nice boats in the 225-350k range.

[CatNewBee]

Though last time we got knocked down by a microburst, which lead to the death of a french crew in a cat behind us, so i really want a barge of a boat that goes great downhill and whos mast will snap before it flips the boat.

Does a lagoon fit the bill?.

what cat was it, what happened?

[danielamartindm]

For stability and safety, Lagoons will certainly fit the bill; but no Lagoon owner I ever met would characterize them as "barges." They're not racing cats, but they sail well, especially off the wind, and their mission statement is cruising. I was once told that MY mast was designed to fail before a capsize, but have since learned that this is a nautical equivalent of an "urban legend," and thank goodness for that. A dismasting is not an innocuous event.

[johnnyH]

stevenstuf - i have lived on my cat from November through July and sailed it from Norfolk to Bequia and back again. It is comfortable to live in even during bad weather. The galley benefits are true. Things I did not consider when buying is lagoon include the extra cost of operating a cat and bridge limitations. For instance, a wet slip is generally 150% of the cost of a mono-haul slip. Bottom jobs cost more. Repairs to sail drives and engines are twice the cost. Finally check your mast height because larger cats are unable to use the ICW because of bridge clearance. If you like going outside then this is not a problem. Even with these issues I would not trade my cat for a mono-haul.

[stevensuf]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

what cat was it, what happened?

We were off the coast of morocco heading to the canaries, when we got hit by a microburst, knocked down, hail stones like golf balls, boat pinned down on its side by so much water in the sail, I let the sheet go bounced up and got the hell out of there, 6 months later we found out a Fountain Pajot cat got flipped on the same day and roughly the same place and the boat washed up on the coast of morroco several weeks later, 4 crew lost.


We did see it coming, we had the main away but only managed to half furl the gib before it hit, The french cat was not so lucky.


I have not let this put me off a cat, all off shore sailing has risk to it, but if i do go down the cat avenue I would like to minimise the risk, the thought of the flybridge is nice, but the thought of trying to quickly get to the sheets in an emergency on a flybridge cat puts me off



I dont know about others, but we did 99,9% of our sailing on autopilot and a lot of open water sailing , where a lookout every ten mins or so is enough, i feel on a big flybridge cat, someone would need to be permanently in the flybridge in any sort of rough weather.

[SV Bacchus]

Steven, we have an older Leopard 42 and love the setup. Admittedly we don't know any better, it is our 1st Cat.

One thing we discovered that is important to us is the size relationship between the salon and the cockpit. We learned we spend so much more time in the cockpit than inside. If a galley down gives you a smaller, yet usable, salon and allows for a larger cockpit then it would certainly be a consideration for us on our next boat.

We are actually considering trading "backwards" with regard to year of boat. We really like the sturdy build quality of our Leopard 42, a 2004 model. A friend is wanting to sell his 1997 Leopard 45 and it is built like a tank. It has older systems needing upgrades but the bigger cockpit is a strong draw for us. The cockpit on our 42 is darn nice, quite big and on our recent Bahamas trip we routinely had 12 people on board during 'happy hour'; all were inside the cockpit. The 45 cockpit is bigger yet!

PS: Not related to your question but the older L45 and our newer L42 both have shaft drives with skeg hung rudders, not saildrives. A feature we like and are quite comfortable with.

[belizesailor]

Fear of capsize vs sinking is an odd bit of subjective psychology:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...8&share_type=t

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by stevensuf

We were off the coast of morocco heading to the canaries, when we got hit by a microburst, knocked down, hail stones like golf balls, boat pinned down on its side by so much water in the sail, I let the sheet go bounced up and got the hell out of there, 6 months later we found out a Fountain Pajot cat got flipped on the same day and roughly the same place and the boat washed up on the coast of morroco several weeks later, 4 crew lost.


We did see it coming, we had the main away but only managed to half furl the gib before it hit, The french cat was not so lucky.


I have not let this put me off a cat, all off shore sailing has risk to it, but if i do go down the cat avenue I would like to minimise the risk, the thought of the flybridge is nice, but the thought of trying to quickly get to the sheets in an emergency on a flybridge cat puts me off



I dont know about others, but we did 99,9% of our sailing on autopilot and a lot of open water sailing , where a lookout every ten mins or so is enough, i feel on a big flybridge cat, someone would need to be permanently in the flybridge in any sort of rough weather.

If the sails are up, I would always want the on-watch person to be at the Helm in bad weather anyway. Flybridge or Helm down. Its a well protected watchkeeping position either way. (with the right bimini and clears of course).

In a serious incident with the sails up, you need to be within reach of the mainsheet in a couple seconds. Which means, regardless of boat, sitting AT the helm pretty much.

For reference, its 3 extra steps to the flybridge, vs to the helm down on the 450 F vs the S, and the main sheet is RIGHT at the steps. If I'm in the cockpit and need to get to the helm in a hurry, I don't see any real practical difference in distance.

I also have a jack-line rigged from the salon door up and across the entire flybridge, and the tether dosn't even reach the sidelines, plus some extra handrails I had fitted for safety.

Anywhere I want to take this boat, I'm ok with the Flybridge, but there are places I wouldn't take a cruising cat at all of course.

Of course only go with what you are comfortable with. But suggest taking one for a sail before locking yourself in to what may or may not work. We nearly discounted the fly bridge for similar reasons, and glad we didn't.

Mark.

[Jannie Radiance]

Prout Snowgoose.. cheap, built like a brick shithouse!

[scarlet]

I will keep it short and sweet.. I like both kinds. make your decision on what you will use it for. If you plan on using the boat as a means to get you from place to place, then spending the vast majority of your time either moored, anchored, or at the dock... a catamaran is the only way to go You have 10 times more deck space (only small cockpits on monohulls, which would not be fun with a whole family on board.. ) And, just more space all around.. and is flat and stable when at anchor, etc. If you plan is to mostly sail, and spend very little time on the hook, monohull all the way. Much more fun to sail, and better pointing... Love both.. both have strengths and weekness... figure out what your journey will look like... then choose.