Should we worry about cockpit floor level walkthroughs from the sterns in big seas?

[zstine]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Leopard 450?

my bad... It was a Lagoon 450 that failed. oops. hope I don't get any death threats from the Leopard guys

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Captndave1

More good reasons why I prefer monohulls, besides, I cannot wrap my head around the need for escape hatches in the bottom.

True, a monohull certainly does not need escape hatches. However the advantage would seem to be pointless when the monohull is setting on the ocean floor.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Sparx

For structural strength I like to see a big box beam back there. However I think having a flat aft deck with minimum things to trip over is a good safety feature. The Leopard 46 and Lagoon 38 have very secure aft deck areas and are useful examples among many. I think Seawind does an excellent job of this also.

How many rear beam failures have there been recently? If there have been a lot of failures, of course, something needs to be done but I'm not familiar with a lot rear beam failures. (The front beam at the mast is under drastically more stress as the rig is constantly trying to flex it, so a different consideration). More strength once a part is strong enough is just poor design.

I suppose it depends on where you use it but I'm betting 99% of people are more likely to have a tripping incident than a pooping incident, so looking at risk management, eliminating the trip hazard is likely more effective at improving safety.

If the rear deck is wide open a flooded cockpit will tend to wash right back out. The main entry way should have a raised bottom so in a moderate event, the door won't take the brunt of it.

Then again, cats tend to be light and ride up waves unlike old full keel monos where they can't rise as quickly, so the odds (again risk managment) is lower to start with.

In the end if mother nature wants to, she will win.

[Barra]

Yes its a concern and no doubt adds risk to a pooping becoming more than that. But its a compromise like all the other modern "improvements" made in the last decade or so as the charter business has more and more influence on production cat design.

I would add the trend to shorter stern stems done to increase cockpit usable area also exacerbates the issue. It reduces aft buoyancy in following seas and makes the pooping itself higher risk too.

One modern design change that has been somewhat beneficial to safety when it comes to poopings though is the solid cockpit bimini.

Ive seen a leopard 46 after it took a rougue wave ON its cockpit roof from the stern quarter mid atlantic. Stove in the steel support posts but kept the tonnes of water out of the saloon. Skipper reckoned it saved the boat but he was pretty concerned that had it been a bit smaller and come in under the roof they could have been in trouble as it would have acted a bit like a catchers mitt forcing the water into saloon instead.

Swings and roundabouts eh.

[jmh2002]

I'm not addressing the structural side of the aft beam question in this post but I did make a comment in a La Vagabond thread a while back after their out of season Atlantic crossing that it may be nice to have the option of a 'wash board' (a la mono companionway boards) for offshore (or simply extra rough) passages on cats that have large sliding doors.

One the one hand having a flush level floor from the cockpit through inside to the salon is a very nice (essential?) feature for normal use, it does mean that any water in the cockpit can easily find it's way through into the salon at any time the door is open.

This doesn't have to be a cockpit filling wave, so it can range from simply 'annoying' at having a wet salon floor - even a centimetre / half an inch is a pita - to the other end of the scale where it may become a safety/damage concern in the interior.

It seems that a folding integrated wash board could easily be nicely built into either the cockpit floor, door frames, etc, depending on the particular boat's layout. This could be at a height that is then just easily stepped over by the crew when required, but would certainly stop the bulk of any water passing through.

Food for thought anyway.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

I'm not addressing the structural side of the aft beam question in this post but I did make a comment in a La Vagabond thread a while back after their out of season Atlantic crossing that it may be nice to have the option of a 'wash board' (a la mono companionway boards) for offshore (or simply extra rough) passages on cats that have large sliding doors.

One the one hand having a flush level floor from the cockpit through inside to the salon is a very nice (essential?) feature for normal use, it does mean that any water in the cockpit can easily find it's way through into the salon at any time the door is open.

This doesn't have to be a cockpit filling wave, so it can range from simply 'annoying' at having a wet salon floor - even a centimetre / half an inch is a pita - to the other end of the scale where it may become a safety/damage concern in the interior.

It seems that a folding integrated wash board could easily be nicely built into either the cockpit floor, door frames, etc, depending on the particular boat's layout. This could be at a height that is then just easily stepped over by the crew when required, but would certainly stop the bulk of any water passing through.

Food for thought anyway.

No, you’re exactly right.

Despite it not being cool to have this safety feature in place I have one. It’s easy to step over.

In fact, it’s so important, all uscg inspected vessels are required to have it.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Chotu

No, you’re exactly right.

Despite it not being cool to have this safety feature in place I have one. It’s easy to step over.

In fact, it’s so important, all uscg inspected vessels are required to have it.

Yeah, just like many monos it could also easily be in two pieces regarding height, the first for "it's getting a bit bumpy out here" and the second level for "oh shxt...".

Because you still need to open the doors from time to time, and murphy's law says that is just exactly when the wrong wave will come aboard.

[chrisr]

although we love the huge bi-fold doors that open frm the cockpit into our saloon, we unfortunately have a nice high sill (abt 200mm) which gives a lot of peace of mind

despite causing more than a few trips and stubbed toes !

however even with this i'm still toying with the idea of some storm boards. will probably do it the day after 'that' wave...on the locking the stable door after the horse has bolted principal...

cheers,

[JPA Cate]

I'd think you'd want them, also, for cruising in areas where there are crocs and alligators, or where said creatures have been farmed, as they sometimes go walkabout.

Ann

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Captndave1

More good reasons why I prefer monohulls, besides, I cannot wrap my head around the need for escape hatches in the bottom.

And I cant wrap my head around boats that can sink

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Factor

And I cant wrap my head around boats that can sink

I can't wrap my head around a boat that doesn't say good morning to my soul!

[Cadence]

Maybe it should be restricted to those fortunate enough to own one.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I'd think you'd want them, also, for cruising in areas where there are crocs and alligators, or where said creatures have been farmed, as they sometimes go walkabout.

Ann

Is this for real?

We are coming over to spend the winter in Queensland next year and will be in some croc infested waters, especially if we decide to head to Indonesia rather than back to NZ. There looks like some awesome cruising in the NT, but having crocs climb up our stern steps is something we’d prefer to do without.

[Quebramar]

Crocs or seals, sea lions etc all lovely creatures as long as they don’t invade the saloon, empty the fridge or else... [emoji43]

https://youtu.be/iJ8xhi7HN6s

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Is this for real?

We are coming over to spend the winter in Queensland next year and will be in some croc infested waters, especially if we decide to head to Indonesia rather than back to NZ. There looks like some awesome cruising in the NT, but having crocs climb up our stern steps is something we’d prefer to do without.

It can happen. I can't remember, do you have any pets onboard? Crocs have been known to grab cats and dogs of the back of boats up in FNQ and beyond.

But you also need to be aware of every day things, such as a swim to clean the waterline, etc, depending on where you are anchored. And, crocs love marinas too - we always used to take the boat out offshore on a calm day to drift and clean the bottom, but then you need to watch out for the sharks...

Nor sure if you follow these guys: https://www.youtube.com/c/SailingTangaroa/videos

It's a cat as well, but a Wharram, and they have some truly stunning videos of cruising in Western Australia, the Kimberleys, and so on, including croc territory. Well worth watching just for the shear beauty in my opinion even for non cat or non Wharram fans.

They were happy to have a tinnie (aluminium dinghy for non kiwis/aussies) as their tender though, instead of an inflatable - just sayin!