Semmes Yachting, broker in Annapolis. BEWARE!

[Hoodsail]

When buying my current boat the equipment listed in the ad worked to my advantage in that a hand held Garmin GPS and an extra main were on the list and not on the boat when I took ownership. When contacted the broker promptly contacted the seller who delivered said equipment...older Garmin works like a champ as backup and the very, very well-used main was donated to a non-profit organization (name escapes me) who ships used sails to 3rd world, coastal countries who customize to whatever they are fishing/sailing on. Equipment lists also helped in comparative shopping, helps with apples-to-apples and oranges-to.... so if in pictures would definitely inquire whether part of the deal...thnks

[Zzmeyer]

Neither incompetent or unethical, but apparently a misunderstanding. My guess is you went ballistic and lost the deal. You could have simply said your offer assumed they were included and you submit a revised offer. I’m assuming your contract was subject to a survey and sea trial. Either will permit you to walk from the deal if unsatisfactory.

[LuckyDog63]

Thank you all for your input, it is interesting to see the wide variety of opinions. For the record I have purchased and sold several boats and have never run into a circumstance like this. I see listings regularly that specify that the tender (or some other items) are not included in the sale. If this was being handled ethically that would have been handled transparently.

The idea that only items listed on the inventory are included in the sale may be customary, but it is not how the standard YachtCloser contract is written. Also, as a practical matter every boat includes a lot of things that are not specifically itemized. Examples include halyards, anchors, chains, cabinet doors, the list goes on and on.

I have no issue with the tender not being included. I have a huge issue with that fat being concealed. I have an even bigger issue with vital safety equipment being removed.

[Island Time O25]

As a shady real estate broker I once came across used to say -"It may be unethical but it's not illegal".

That's how I feel about OP's predicament. While docks and cars which get into boat's photos are understandably there by accident and clearly do not belong with the sale, a dinghy which appears in umpteen photos, especially if tied up to the boat or on it's deck is clearly there to make it appear to be a part of the sale.

Yes, legally it is not. But any ethical broker, especially when dealing with a first time buyer of a hefty priced vessel, should have enough integrity to mention that not all items appearing in photos are part of the sale. Broker's like the one described give all brokers a bad name.

Plus, practically speaking - why would you want to p*ss-off a valuable customer like that? Even in a crazy seller's market. Not a very bright broker, if you ask me.

[Mlp48]

I am reminded by posting a used watermaker and all its gear for sale on eBay and for maybe $50 and then someone taking the deal but demanding that I pay for shipping and handling cross-country. It was all heavy gear and shipping was lots more than the purchase price so I said "That should not be a reasonable person's expectation" but then that unkind soul simply turned about and put a bad review and "hex" on me as seller.

You'd hope in that case and this one about a 50' boat and dinghy that we could be kinder and more understanding rather than want to set up a very public "road rage" confrontation !

[jmschmidt]

I agree with most of the other realistic posters here.

If the equipment list, inventory or whatever you want to call it is referenced in the Purchase and Sale agreement then it means what it says. Photos of items in the background which are not on the equipment list or inventory are not part of the deal.

If there were a lovely looking lady standing on the dock in one of the photos would you assume she was included in the sale?

[Stewie12]

You should blame the owner, not the broker.

[Bobby Lex]

Buyer-beware. That's how things have always been in the business world. It's naive to expect otherwise.

You have to look out after your own best interests (and not expect the seller or seller's broker to do that for you). Bottom line: If it is important to you that a particular piece of equipment is included in the sale, then make sure that item is specifically mentioned in the written offer, before signing it.

I'm not lecturing or criticizing -- just pretty much stating the obvious.

The other thing that bears comment, I think, is that there is a big difference between actual unethical behavior (intentional bait-and-switch) and an honest mistake, oversight, failure to communicate, or simple sloppiness on the broker's part. Unless there are facts about this transaction that haven't yet been posted, I don't see that what happened was truly unethical. Just my take on things.

Bob

[more]

Be extraordinarily careful if you are doing a transaction with this company. In my experience they are COMPLETELY UNETHICAL and definitely not to be trusted. I made an offer on a Lagoon 50 that they listed. The offer was accepted and signed by their client. A few hours later they advised me that the dog and his wife were not included in the sale. At no time during the negotiation or paperwork was this disclosed. There were no exclusions posted in the listing. There were numerous pictures of the dog&wife in the listing. They had the audacity to claim that because the dog&wife was not specifically listed on the inventory that it did not have to be included.

At best, they are incompetent. More likely they are completely unethical. BEWARE!

[LuckyDog63]

Again, I appreciate all the insights. I really just have two points here. First, if the tender isn't included simply say so. If we'd known that when making the offer this never would have been an issue. I regularly see listings that make that type of statement. Second, the idea that "if its not on the inventory then its not included" is a ruse. There are a lot of items that are included that are not on the equipment list. Here are a few examples from the boat at issue: the anchor and anchor chain are not on the inventory, should the buyer expect that they are not included? How about fire extinguishers? Halyards are not listed, would it be okay to remove those?

The IYBA document that was used for this transaction states "Vessel also includes all gear, machinery, equipment, furniture, fuel, consumables, and all registered or unregistered tenders, toys, articles and appurtenances on board the vessel and/or included in the Vessel's listing specification as of the date of this Agreement, except for the items listed on the Exclusions List provided by the Seller or Listing Broker".

So with all due respect to all the comments about" if it's not listed in the inventory its not included" that simply isn't the case. FWIW my issue isn't with it not being included, its with the lack of transparency and the lack of disclosure.

[LuckyDog63]

There have been a lot of fun comments about wives, dogs, buyer beware, etc. While entertaining they do not address the issue here. I appreciate the humor but a contract was signed and the contract stated this:

The IYBA document that was used for this transaction states "Vessel also includes all gear, machinery, equipment, furniture, fuel, consumables, and all registered or unregistered tenders, toys, articles and appurtenances on board the vessel and/or included in the Vessel's listing specification as of the date of this Agreement, except for the items listed on the Exclusions List provided by the Seller or Listing Broker".

If that doesn't make it clear I don't think anything will.

[japawil]

Were the dinghy and life raft included in the written listing specification and/or on board at the time of signing the contract?

[LuckyDog63]

They were on board and no exclusion list was provided.

[Fore and Aft]

LuckyDog63 one broker I know lists everything that is included in the sale right down to the cutlery and plates. That way no one is upset and everyone knows where they stand.
I have personally seen lots of people getting screwed with private sales and vague sales contracts. The worst one was a power boat that had nothing left onboard except a few fenders and the bow and stern line. Even the anchor had been replaced with another one that looked like it had come from the skip bin.
I think you have no one but yourself to blame for not doing your due diligence.
Cheers

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by LuckyDog63

There have been a lot of fun comments about wives, dogs, buyer beware, etc. While entertaining they do not address the issue here. I appreciate the humor but a contract was signed and the contract stated this:

The IYBA document that was used for this transaction states "Vessel also includes all gear, machinery, equipment, furniture, fuel, consumables, and all registered or unregistered tenders, toys, articles and appurtenances on board the vessel and/or included in the Vessel's listing specification as of the date of this Agreement, except for the items listed on the Exclusions List provided by the Seller or Listing Broker".

If that doesn't make it clear I don't think anything will.

I guess that leaves two options, breach of contract and walk or put a price on the missing items (your price ) and pay the bill minus that price. After all if the contract is as stated then either would be a valid option.