Sea Anchor versus drogue for multihull

[Steve Bean]

Among my books I find two that mention this use of oil in relatively recent times. K. Adlard Coles, in his classic book "Heavy Weather Sailing," (1967) referred to use of oil by Jean Gau on "Atom," a 29'6" ketch, in hurricane Carrie in 1957. He streamed a warp and used oil while lying ahull. Also, William A. Robinson's experience in his 70-foot brigantine "Varua" in 1952. He ran downwind streaming several warps to control speed and using oil, which he said seemed "more effective at this lower speed." Coles mentions a book by Robinson. Coles further discusses oil on page 279. " It has long been known that oil has a smoothing effect on heavy seas and tends to tranquilize or reduce breaking waves." Coles also refers to Captain Voss' "wide experience of the use of oil."
Robinson's experience is also mentioned by Eric Hiscock in "Voyaging Under Sail" (1959). "One of the advantages of running before a gale at slow speed is that oil can be used effectively if required; Robinson used bags each side of the ship and from the forward heads, but how much good it did he found it difficult to decide."
How about asking the ASA?

[Steve Bean]

Too late to edit my last post. Oil is discussed in Bowditch's "American Practical Navigator" (1958) page 736. And in Chapman's Piloting, Seamanship, and Small Boat Handling, 58th Edition, 1987.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Googling your phrase gives the same results I got when I googled “storm oil sailing” which only lists 19th century practices. My question was explicitly about how I never see this strategy mentioned in the modern era. If it is so effective, why doesn’t the ASA mention it as a viable measure in high risk situations at sea? Is it an effective option to make the sea measurably safer if the captain genuinely feared for the security of the boat in a storm?

There is a good writeup about oil use in Van Dorns 'oceanography and seamanship'.he concludes that it can be usefull in reducing the number of breaking small waves and wind blown spume, but it is ineffective against larger breaking waves.

He suggests that some detergents can act in a similar or even more effective way than oils.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Googling your phrase gives the same results I got when I googled “storm oil sailing” which only lists 19th century practices. My question was explicitly about how I never see this strategy mentioned in the modern era. If it is so effective, why doesn’t the ASA mention it as a viable measure in high risk situations at sea? Is it an effective option to make the sea measurably safer if the captain genuinely feared for the security of the boat in a storm?

It is used from time to time in modern times. The Pardeys talk about it in Storm Tactics Handbook. I think there's good evidence that it actually works, and pretty well.

[Snowpetrel]

One of the best references to oils use on a small yacht is in the 1930's book "south sea vagabonds" by Jonny Wray. He used it a fair bit, with whale oil in a small weighted bag hung to windward while hove too. Eventually he ended up going through a cyclone and getting rolled. At this point the oil had long since lost any beneficial effect, and heaving too was impossible, so he ran off towing a huge array of gear, boom, mainsail and all his warps, and somehow survived in a flooded and badly damaged boat to tell the tale. The first series drogue? He swore this was the best survival technique. The book clearly describes the use and disadvantages of oil, such as getting the decks covered in slippery oil.

Its one of the best sea books of its era, funny, well written and a ripping good yarn of youthful adventure from start to finish, but it also contains a weath of hard won wisdom as he gradually learns the art of seamanship. It also has the distintion of being the only sailing book my non-sailing lady actually enjoyed reading!

http://www.noted.co.nz/culture/books...abonds-review/

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/canvas-mag...ectid=11315131
https://www.booktopia.com.au/south-s...775541004.html

[Cadence]

I believe I have heard of it being called anointing the waters. That may give some reference to how long it has been around? I can't help but wonder how much oil is actually required the change The surface tension enough to be effective.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I believe I have heard of it being called anointing the waters. That may give some reference to how long it has been around? I can't help but wonder how much oil is actually required the change The surface tension enough to be effective.

Here is the result of a spoonful of sunflower oil on water affecting about 1/2 acre. Imagine 2 gallons trailing you attached to a drogue. Or oil-doused rags being slingshotted in a 180 degree arc behind you. And apparently, it doesn't just mitigate smaller waves, but helps dissipate the energy of larger waves when they crash. It could be an interesting addition to traditional measures during life-threatening weather condition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2H418M3V6M

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Here is the result of a spoonful of sunflower oil on water affecting about 1/2 acre. Imagine 2 gallons trailing you attached to a drogue. Or oil-doused rags being slingshotted in a 180 degree arc behind you. And apparently, it doesn't just mitigate smaller waves, but helps dissipate the energy of larger waves when they crash. It could be an interesting addition to traditional measures during life-threatening weather condition.

Thanks! It is ripples on a small lake. I may be wrong but can't see the relevance to off shore. A good physics experiment on surface tension. May be good as an example for a HS physics class.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Thanks! It is ripples on a small lake. I may be wrong but can't see the relevance to off shore. A good physics experiment on surface tension. May be good as an example for a HS physics class.

Well, the relevance is that it is a practice that definitely WAS used to keep ships safe. Obviously, modern boats have incredible advances in design, life support systems, weather routing information, and other things that keep the modern sailor safer than ever. Through discussion on a sailing forum, I’m trying to determine to what degree storm oil could play in that assemblage of safety factors or if it is relatively inconsequential in relation to modern tools.

Seems like a fair question to ask in a thread about drogues and anchors in storms, no?

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Thalas

I’m trying to determine to what degree storm oil could play in that assemblage of safety factors or if it is relatively inconsequential in relation to modern tools.

If that is your question . . . the answer is 'relatively inconsequential'.

I would suggest you not put it very high up your list of tools to invest much time and energy in.

You can affect breaking crest behavior in various ways - 'tripping' them with a drogue, or the 'slick' from being hove to, or oil.

BUT #1 it is pretty difficult in a violent storm to stay in the area affected (especially when you have wave trains coming from multiple directions), and #2 these really only work on breaking crests and not full blown breaking waves, and #3 without some clever design the oil will get washed right out of a drogue pretty quickly (you tow foul weather gear in a mesh bag behind the boat for a half hour and it is all spotlessly clean), and #4 there is the environment 'issue', some oil would be better than others, but pouring 5 gals of any oil in the ocean would be frowned upon in many circles.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

If that is your question . . . the answer is 'relatively inconsequential'.

I would suggest you not put it very high up your list of tools to invest much time and energy in.

You can affect breaking crest behavior in various ways - 'tripping' them with a drogue, or the 'slick' from being hove to, or oil.

BUT #1 it is pretty difficult in a violent storm to stay in the area affected (especially when you have wave trains coming from multiple directions), and #2 these really only work on breaking crests and not full blown breaking waves, and #3 without some clever design the oil will get washed right out of a drogue pretty quickly (you tow foul weather gear in a mesh bag behind the boat for a half hour and it is all spotlessly clean), and #4 there is the environment 'issue', some oil would be better than others, but pouring 5 gals of any oil in the ocean would be frowned upon in many circles.

Thanks for the reply. That was my guess. Again, I understand that with modern technology, we get the option of avoiding storms more easily than our predecessors which is the best way to stay safe. Always curious when lost techniques still serve a purpose in the modern era which is why I asked.

[Warren Drifter]

Originally Posted by PapaLulu

Hope to hear comments on one versus the other for storm tactics. My understanding of the Jordan Series Drogue is designed to slow the boat down as one is either running with or away from the storm. Less wind and breaking waves are reported advantages, etc. While the sea anchor is designed to ride out the storm while minimizing drift, say towards a leeward shore. Is it necessary to have both for a sizable catamaran planning transoceanic voyages or would the drogue be sufficient? Aside from redundancy (valuable), does having both warrant the extreme expense of some of these sea anchors? And if only one option was chosen, which?

I'd like to pass this article on.

Helicopter rescue bid next for stricken yachties off Northland as rough seas scuttle Coastguard attempts - NZ Herald

Perhaps a sea anchor would be making this boat ride more comfortable and perhaps even enable some makeshift repairs to be made.

[Sail Houston]

A homemade drogue would be on my list for a cat trip with anything greater than a 50pct passage chance for F7 or higher from a pilot chart. A sea anchor unless travelling coastal is not really necessary on a cat and I would even say not wise to deploy under heavy conditions. A deployed sea anchor is going to face the cat too far into the wind and place your nose which has the least amount of reserve buoyancy directly into the prevailing weather. With the inherent stiffness of a catamaran, you are going to pitch and roll like crazy in that situation. Properly going hove-to with the use of a tri-sail or storm sails is a much better idea. They are not only easier to deploy and retrieve in heavy weather but also provide for a much more comfortable ride. Cats and monohulls sail very differently, understanding how they derive their stability is important for safe cruising and long passages.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Sail Houston

A homemade drogue would be on my list for a cat trip with anything greater than a 50pct passage chance for F7 or higher from a pilot chart. A sea anchor unless travelling coastal is not really necessary on a cat and I would even say not wise to deploy under heavy conditions. A deployed sea anchor is going to face the cat too far into the wind and place your nose which has the least amount of reserve buoyancy directly into the prevailing weather. With the inherent stiffness of a catamaran, you are going to pitch and roll like crazy in that situation. Properly going hove-to with the use of a tri-sail or storm sails is a much better idea. They are not only easier to deploy and retrieve in heavy weather but also provide for a much more comfortable ride. Cats and monohulls sail very differently, understanding how they derive their stability is important for safe cruising and long passages.

What he said, except for the home made drogue part. I've done a lot of drogues testing, and I think that may be harder to properly arrange and to create meaningful drag than most people can imagine. Buy a Delta Drogue (it is inexpensive and pretty good) and practice with it in some force 7.

[Sail Houston]

Another point on the use of a drogue of any kind is the intended application of the drogue itself. There are three ways I categorize the use of a drogue on a Cat during heavy weather.

Slow me down
Increase Lateral Stability and Steerage
Reduce Pitching

Each of the above requires a different setup and towed length.

Something also to mention when talking about Storm sailing on a Catamaran is the use of a small wing sail or chute. Think windsurfing sail except much smaller. During a storm. They allow you to change your Center of effort drastically as needed. Can sail at a very high apparent wind angle safely. Place the lift at the bow to prevent pitching(both safe and comfortable), and allow the tandem use of a drogue to give you a very flat ride. The only real downside is if running it from a halyard instead of the sprit depending on the desired effect, I would recommend a running back of some kind.