Sea Anchor versus drogue for multihull

[tuskie]

The Lagoon 410 " Zero Gravity" was caught out in very rough conditions in the southern Tasman Sea and deployed a parachute anchor. He was happy with its performance, however ultimately had to cut it loose. He managed to retrieve it once, with the aid of 2 crew, but could not do this solo. His story is detailed:

Para Anchors and Drogues - Para Anchors Australia | Still Australian Made | A Matter of Survival

We carry a Burke Seabrake GP30 drogue with adjustable and winch retrievable bridle. Like all safety gear, we have tried it out but hope that it never needs to be used in anger. I'll not pretend that the Seabrake is as good as a Jordan series drogue, but it is well constructed, smaller to stow and far less expensive.

https://www.burkemarine.com.au/products/seabrake-gp30

[Mike Banks]

Both are useful and used, as one can imagine. for different purposes and require different methods of employment.

Now--depending on the amount of moolah available, there are ways of getting the same results as a drogue far more cheaply with some 8mm stainless steel chain, some stainless shackles, and this bit is important--some motor vehicle tyres of descending size, which will be linked with a gap of about three inches between them. It is important that the wire in the bead is stainless or they will not last long.

So--you have wghan staxcked, a beehive with the chains that link each tyre bead culminating at a common point which is hard shackled to a length of larger guage chain-probably five metres or so will do--and to the end of that is fastened your long length of nylon rode.

It will cost you between fifty and a hundred dollars depending upon the availability and price of the stainless chain. The tyres are usually free. Extra weight can be added behind the tyres by letting the linking chains extend beyound the last tyre, and linking them in a shackle--to which is added an extra weight such as a barbel with a loop braised on to the rim--these weights also double as an angel on an anchor line for extra holding. A kettle weight is fine too.

For the sea anchor I have no cheap alternatives. You can save money though by making your own out of heavy canvas and sewing it around dyneema ropes. Patterns for them exist. Some heavy cargo drop chutes may be bought from military surplus. Lotsa luck.

[BigBeakie]

Tuskie, i think you need to reread the ZG story again. He did not cut his chute loose, he cut his float line after it was caught under the boat.

This story is an object lesson in what not to do. And motoring back upwind directly to the chute to retrieve is not the way either IMO for the reasons Ive outlined in my previous post..


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[tuskie]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Tuskie, i think you need to reread the ZG story again. He did not cut his chute loose, he cut his float line after it was caught under the boat.

This story is an object lesson in what not to do. And motoring back upwind directly to the chute to retrieve is not the way either IMO for the reasons Ive outlined in my previous post..


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Sorry, did not closely read the web account. Being an advertising site the story may be edited. I was tied up next to Zero Gravity and spoke personally to the guy ( a laid back Canadian) a few years ago. After his seasick crew were evacuated to an assisting cruise liner, he deployed the chute again. This second deployment is not mentioned in the web account. He then rested for a day or two, and was in no condition or mood to do cute U shaped recovery manouvres to recover the sea anchor. Sea state was still very rough, he was now single handing and pulling in a huge parachute was considered to be out of the question. IIRC he cut it loose and set sail for Queenstown (Milford Sound) in South Island after getting special permission from NZ authorities to enter there.

[yeloya]

Sea anchors are not a good option IMO, particularly for catamarans and and for inexperienced or short handed crew. Heave to is not possible for most of cats either..The only option is to run bare poled with throwing all the ropes you can find on board on the aft of the boat. If you can afford any kind of drogue it's even better.
The worst I've seen was 60 kts of winds and I surfed up to 25.3 kts of speed w/out the need of any drogue. The waves were not more than 6-7 meters and Orana 44 has handled perfectly with the A/P.
I tend to believe that the issue are the waves rather than the wind. Unless you get over 10 meters breaking waves , any cat over 42-43 ft should not have major issues.
If you are cought in such conditions, I'd doubted very much that drogue or sea anchor will help a lot..


Cheers


Yeloya

[pillars]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Sea anchors are not a good option IMO, particularly for catamarans and and for inexperienced or short handed crew.


Yeloya

Isn't this the very reason for a sea anchor, so you can park the boat and rest the crew. How can you run with the storm for any amount of time if you are short handed? It's likely a recipe for a major accident as people tire, no?

The way Klaus describes it here, he goes through the same thought process:
Para Anchors and Drogues - Para Anchors Australia | Still Australian Made | A Matter of Survival

The only issue that I see with his approach is that it sounds like he had never tried deploying the sea anchor before in slightly calmer conditions and was essentially winging it in a big storm.

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by PapaLulu

Thanks for the inputs thus far. I recently read Fatty Goodlander's article 'Take It Slow' in this month's Cruising World magazine. His account of deploying and retrieving the Para-Tech sea anchor was disturbing, especially when I think about the large chute required for a 44', 19-ton catamaran. We will probably make our own JSD and some version of Fatty's Fat Puffer or another diy sea anchor that looks to be more easily retrieved than the Para_Tech. Keep the opinions coming though! Love to learn from other's experiences as I hope to avoid some first-hand lessons.

I find Fatty's articles to be usually entertaining, but I feel like there is an undercurrent of condescension in a lot of his writing. If people don't do things exactly the way he thinks they should be done then he seems pretty dismissive and disparaging. I take a lot of his recommendations with a grain of salt as a result, even if he has no monetary interest in the "Fat Puffer".

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Sea anchors are not a good option IMO, particularly for catamarans and and for inexperienced or short handed crew. Heave to is not possible for most of cats either..The only option is to run bare poled with throwing all the ropes you can find on board on the aft of the boat. If you can afford any kind of drogue it's even better.
The worst I've seen was 60 kts of winds and I surfed up to 25.3 kts of speed w/out the need of any drogue. The waves were not more than 6-7 meters and Orana 44 has handled perfectly with the A/P.
I tend to believe that the issue are the waves rather than the wind. Unless you get over 10 meters breaking waves , any cat over 42-43 ft should not have major issues.
If you are cought in such conditions, I'd doubted very much that drogue or sea anchor will help a lot..


Cheers


Yeloya

As you know, this has been discussed many times. I don't believe in sea anchors for cats due to the amount of surface projection they have. In really large breaking waves, the boat is going to come apart. IMO Yeloya is right that running bare poles is the best strategy and if you run out of sea, then turn and motor into the waves very slowly.

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

I find Fatty's articles to be usually entertaining, but I feel like there is an undercurrent of condescension in a lot of his writing. If people don't do things exactly the way he thinks they should be done then he seems pretty dismissive and disparaging. I take a lot of his recommendations with a grain of salt as a result, even if he has no monetary interest in the "Fat Puffer".

I've been a fatty fan for a long time. We personally met when he and Caroline were in St Maarten. I didn't get the same impression you have.

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I've been a fatty fan for a long time. We personally met when he and Caroline were in St Maarten. I didn't get the same impression you have.

I enjoy his writing, and his resume is impressive, and I have never met the man in person, my opinions are solely based on my interpretations of some of his writing. A few excerpts from a recent article:

"Now we see older couples offshore with electric sheet winches. They get so little exercise it is difficult for them to fend off another vessel as they drag through the harbor"

"Air-conditioned boats, of course, spend 99 percent of their time in marinas, with their temperature-sensitive owners held prisoner inside in morgue-like conditions. Many of them don’t even know their next-boat neighbor, whom they seldom meet in passing. Only occasionally do they leave the dock and go anchor out. And even then, they sit indoors, hiding inside and polluting the anchorage with diesel fumes and engine noise."

I personally found those to be somewhat condescending or dismissive, perhaps with a smile, but condescending nonetheless. And I say that with having the majority of my sailing and living-aboard being on a gaff-rig schooner with no sheet winches, no gen set, and no AC. So I am not personally offended, I just think it seems a little judgmental.

[Dave852]

You can buy the shark drogue for $600-$700 I believe. About 10 times as effective and 10 times lighter and smaller than a bunch of warps/chain/tires etc... Essential gear as it will be your method of steering if you loose your rudders. I would definitely choose the drogue over the parachute.

[Palarran]

Phisig,
I guess your right, that didn't sound very nice.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Palarran

As you know, this has been discussed many times. I don't believe in sea anchors for cats due to the amount of surface projection they have. In really large breaking waves, the boat is going to come apart. IMO Yeloya is right that running bare poles is the best strategy and if you run out of sea, then turn and motor into the waves very slowly.

.

Motoring into the waves would be harder on the boat than riding to a sea anchor.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I don't believe in sea anchors for cats due to the amount of surface projection they have. In really large breaking waves, the boat is going to come apart.

I think you may be overstating this a bit? I can't recall ever hearing about a cat coming apart while riding to a sea anchor.

I have no experience on a sea anchor but have a couple of friends on cruising cats who have. Both thought well of the experience. One, on a 42' production cat, was caught out by an early season cyclone in the Caribbean that tracked opposite to it's predicted path. He describes waves heights "over the mast" which, even allowing for hyperbole, is more than most of us will ever see. He deployed the chute, then he and his wife huddled in the saloon and waited to die. They did not and he credits the parachute with their survival. The other, a circumnavigator on a 49' home-built cat, deployed his in the Indian Ocean when he found that his usual tactic of heaving to was not working due to the sea state. Neither mentioned any particular difficulty in retrieving the chutes afterwards.

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Sea anchors are not a good option IMO, particularly for catamarans and and for inexperienced or short handed crew. Heave to is not possible for most of cats either..The only option is to run bare poled with throwing all the ropes you can find on board on the aft of the boat. If you can afford any kind of drogue it's even better.
The worst I've seen was 60 kts of winds and I surfed up to 25.3 kts of speed w/out the need of any drogue. The waves were not more than 6-7 meters and Orana 44 has handled perfectly with the A/P.
I tend to believe that the issue are the waves rather than the wind. Unless you get over 10 meters breaking waves , any cat over 42-43 ft should not have major issues.
If you are cought in such conditions, I'd doubted very much that drogue or sea anchor will help a lot..


Cheers


Yeloya

My cat does heave to; however, when it does, it retains a slight amount of forward way, rather than the more lateral movement I've experienced with monohulls.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Dave852

You can buy the shark drogue for $600-$700 I believe. About 10 times as effective and 10 times lighter and smaller than a bunch of warps/chain/tires etc... Essential gear as it will be your method of steering if you loose your rudders. I would definitely choose the drogue over the parachute.

I bought a boat that the former owner used a tire as a drogue. Is that common practice. It was about the size of a rear on a riding lawn mower. It is fish habitat today.