Sailing vs Power Catamaran - Time, Cost and Enjoyment

[jbinbi]

A most interesting thread for me, as I have developed a bad back and hauling lines exacerbates this. So I want to stay on the water, but not sure I can be on a sailboat.

On any of my boats, possibly the best moment of sailing is right when after the sails are out, you shut down the engines, and all you hear is... nothing but the wind and the boat moving through the water.

The sound of the engine is extremely intrusive to me. So my big question is, 'on a motor boat, do you hear the engines like you do on a sailboat?'

I have no idea why my engine compartments are not insulated. The covers are just fiberglass, why no sound blocking material.

I have never actually been on an inboard motor boat, but would think that they have lots of sound insulation?

If a powercat is has as much engine noise as my sailing cat does from its engines, no way would I want this. If it is baffled, not so bad then. I would never take my sailing cat and just de rig it and make it a power cat. But that is just me.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

The sound of the engine is extremely intrusive to me. So my big question is, 'on a motor boat, do you hear the engines like you do on a sailboat?'

Depends on the boat and engine.
Fast boats run their engines hard and this equals noise, especially if they have Detroit Diesels/Screaming Jimmy's.
I can still hear them running when they are a spec on the horizon.

On ours, being a slow boat, we run the big 6 cyl Cummins at 1150 to 1200rpm for 7.5 to 8.5knot cruise.
At those revs the engine is pretty quiet, just a low rumble a bit like those white noise sound generation apps used to help you sleep.
Quite often the engine room door is left open so we can actually hear it.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Ever heard something about nature striving for maximum entropy?

Humans destiny is to free the carbon accumulated over millions of years to enable the next evolution step on the planet.

We make the planet green again.

Btw, ressources are not lost, no matter how much you consume, not a single atom leaves earth due to gravity, any following generation will have the same set of ressources, maybe in a different combination or location. Our trash is the ressource for future industries. Once it becomes cheaper to excavate a dump ground than blow a mountain...

Nature is changing, you can't stop it.

Oh, LOL! I thought you were serious in your earlier post and now I caught on to your joke. Nice one.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

A most interesting thread for me, as I have developed a bad back and hauling lines exacerbates this. So I want to stay on the water, but not sure I can be on a sailboat.

On any of my boats, possibly the best moment of sailing is right when after the sails are out, you shut down the engines, and all you hear is... nothing but the wind and the boat moving through the water.

The sound of the engine is extremely intrusive to me. So my big question is, 'on a motor boat, do you hear the engines like you do on a sailboat?'

I have no idea why my engine compartments are not insulated. The covers are just fiberglass, why no sound blocking material.

I have never actually been on an inboard motor boat, but would think that they have lots of sound insulation?

If a powercat is has as much engine noise as my sailing cat does from its engines, no way would I want this. If it is baffled, not so bad then. I would never take my sailing cat and just de rig it and make it a power cat. But that is just me.

That’s because sound insulation is expensive and needs labor to install. It also does not sell boats at the boat show.

Luckily, you can throw time and money at this problem and improve it a lot

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by malbert73

That’s because sound insulation is expensive and needs labor to install. It also does not sell boats at the boat show.

Luckily, you can throw time and money at this problem and improve it a lot

It's also anti Catamaran. It's heavy.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tomfl

A power cat will be running the engine 100% of the time. There are plenty of threads at CF about some sailing cats that seem to motor 50% of the time; always with a response from guys that say they sail 95% of the time and or more and hardly ever motor. So while a larger engine probably does go longer between oil changes that is in terms of hours the engine was running. I change the oil and lower unit fluid in my 9.9 Yamaha outboards on my Seawind at the beginning of the season; once a year. Depending on what I am doing it is usually more frequent on the 9.9 Yamaha on my inflatable which has lots more hours than the ones on the big boat. Truth be told I have never changed the impellers on the big boat, but they are inspected when I pull the lower unit (and I do carry spares). Last time I hauled the boat the yard said they could change out my two outboards for $US6,000 with new ones. I know some power boaters who have paid ten times that much for new engines to be installed after the old ones were removed.

Not to mention that if for some reason all three of my outboards went down I should be able to sail somewhere I could raise SeaTow on the VHF. If the motors on a power cat go down that is not an option.

Not question there are places where a power boat has advantages. My experience has been the ICW is a classic example. Others have pointed places in Asia where that is true. But where I sail it is easy to sail way more than 90% of the time.

Bottom line is there is a break even point somewhere which determines which is cheaper, power or sail. If you sail 90% of the time sailing is most likely cheaper; but if you sail 20% of the time motoring is most likely cheaper. While the actual percent probably varies based on the boat, and probably to some extent how capable a sailor the captain/crew are I have no idea where that point is. Maybe 50% would be a good starting point.

Of course, for the same number of hours, if you are sailing 95% of the time, you are putting far more wear and tear on the sails and rigging, so they won't last nearly as long...thereby increasing the cost of sailing...

Plus if you are purist, slightly baggy sails after 2-3yrs becomes a big issue as it seriously affects your ability to get upwind. On the other hand if you primarily sail when conditions are conducive, you might lose a tenth of a knot but if the sails get a little baggy, it's not a big deal, so you can make the sails last much longer.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Even a freshman Econ 101 student would note that economies of scale is the key factor. A normal oil tanker is 1,000 feet and carries a crew of 24. Maybe there are some sailboats 300 feet long but even with high tec rigs there is no way they could be sailed with a crew that small; not to mention the amount of cargo they could carry. While the crew on a commercial cargo ship does have to have a minimum skill set it requires a significantly larger skill set to sail even a small boat. Sailing a 300 footer would require real skill.

Problem is even for smaller commercial boats (30-60ft), they go power.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

The sound of the engine is extremely intrusive to me. So my big question is, 'on a motor boat, do you hear the engines like you do on a sailboat?'

I have no idea why my engine compartments are not insulated. The covers are just fiberglass, why no sound blocking material.

We had an exposed outboard powered cat. Went from 2 stroke to 4 stroke. First time we stopped to wait for a bridge, I thought the engine stalled because I couldn't hear it.

Unless you fire-walled the throttle, it really didn't make much noise. We could easily hold a conversation from opposite sides of the cockpit without raising our voices. As a displacement boat, very rare that you gain anything from fire-walling the throttle. A few people with the same boat, build a simple insulated hatch that went over it. With that in place, it would be very quite.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

We had an exposed outboard powered cat. Went from 2 stroke to 4 stroke. First time we stopped to wait for a bridge, I thought the engine stalled because I couldn't hear it.

Unless you fire-walled the throttle, it really didn't make much noise. We could easily hold a conversation from opposite sides of the cockpit without raising our voices. As a displacement boat, very rare that you gain anything from fire-walling the throttle. A few people with the same boat, build a simple insulated hatch that went over it. With that in place, it would be very quite.

Any recollection of the pitch of the props on that boat?

And what was the LOA/Displacement? Thanks!

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I have a degree in microbiology, which included a lot of biochemistry learning. I can just tell you that painting a picture suitable for a 5 year old isn't exactly convincing. There's much more to CO2 than it being a 'good thing'.

Well, this don't impress me much, you than probably can explain how all the bio-mass is created without the photosynthesis and CO2, maybe in a parallel universe?

But I am with you, kids should learn about photosynthesis and the food chain on Fridays instead of marching on strikes to save the planet and learning virtual gender sciences the other 4 days.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

A most interesting thread for me, as I have developed a bad back and hauling lines exacerbates this. So I want to stay on the water, but not sure I can be on a sailboat.

On any of my boats, possibly the best moment of sailing is right when after the sails are out, you shut down the engines, and all you hear is... nothing but the wind and the boat moving through the water.

The sound of the engine is extremely intrusive to me. So my big question is, 'on a motor boat, do you hear the engines like you do on a sailboat?'

I have no idea why my engine compartments are not insulated. The covers are just fiberglass, why no sound blocking material.

I have never actually been on an inboard motor boat, but would think that they have lots of sound insulation?

If a powercat is has as much engine noise as my sailing cat does from its engines, no way would I want this. If it is baffled, not so bad then. I would never take my sailing cat and just de rig it and make it a power cat. But that is just me.

Just try it. Any boat with an running engine creates noise and vibrations. If you like the sound of silence and do not like vibrations, sail.

Sails and rigging are not quiet either, you hear the wind picking up, the standing rigging, the lines depending on their tension get in resonance and produce sounds like a string instrument, I can tell the wind speed outside just by listening. Waves torque the hulls too, so you can hear the boat even at anchor. In light winds and swell from the side the boom and the main sail are banging sometimes, you can hear the sails luffing when the wind drops or changes direction.

It is a different kind of noise, but I prefere it over the engines vibrations.

Even big ferries and cruise ships vibrate and are noisy under way when the engines are running.

[merrydolphin]

I have cruised extensively for 20+ yrs on monohulls. I was a paid Captain of a 68 ft Morelli and Melvin power Cat or 3 yrs. (All aluminum). So have some background in this area. First, most honest cruisers will tell you that unless you are on a world trade wind voyage, most live aboard cruisers (mono and multi ) motor about 50% of the time anyway! I also cruised and lived aboard a single engine trawler yacht for 3 yrs. The displacement trawler 35’ motored about the same speed and fuel consumption as my 46’ cruising sailboat. There were 2 things that I didn’t like about the trawler and set them apart. 1. If required, I still only had sailboat speed. And 2. The trawler definitely did not have the seaworthiness of the Sailboat. However, the power cat had both! Speed for an emergency or quick weather window. And sea worthiness! Yes she was 68, with 1800HP. But all the leapord 43’s have crossed the Atlantic the long way! And if you have to move, you will suck some fuel but you do have that option. I do think that extra fuel vs sail/rig costs and disadvantages. I’m guessing that there will be some advantage to sail, but not a lot. Bottom line, I think a power cat cruiser is a very valid choice if that’s what you want.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by merrydolphin

I also cruised and lived aboard a single engine trawler yacht for 3 yrs. The displacement trawler 35’ motored about the same speed and fuel consumption as my 46’ cruising sailboat. There were 2 things that I didn’t like about the trawler and set them apart. 1. If required, I still only had sailboat speed. And 2. The trawler definitely did not have the seaworthiness of the Sailboat.

Well the sailboat was 11 ft longer for a start, that's bound to make one feel better than the other.

Bottom line, I think a power cat cruiser is a very valid choice if that’s what you want.

Undoubtedly, if money is no object.
To get a power cat cruiser that compares in comfort, load carrying and range to what we have now would have a 10X or more premium.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Undoubtedly, if money is no object.
To get a power cat cruiser that compares in comfort, load carrying and range to what we have now would have a 10X or more premium.

Can I ask what you have? A world cruising trawler? 60ft?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Can I ask what you have? A world cruising trawler? 60ft?

Look to the left <<<
Picture and description is there.