Saildrive vs Shaft Drive

[MartinR]

Borg Warner makes v-drives. Volvo also used to make them. I found an unused one in the classifieds and installed it a few years ago when I replaced the original engine in my boat. The v-drive makes for easy placement of the engine, but bear in mind that engines are made to service from the front end, where the pumps, alternators, drive belts and so on are located. In a v-drive installation this ends up in the aft part instead, so you have to make sure there is enough space for servicing.

[django37]

Easiest way to check and service SDrives

[Morph]

I have a 38' bridgedeck which is more at the performance end of the spectrum. When she was getting built I finally decided on 2 X Honda 20 outboards. For the last 10 years these have been amazing and I have not missed diesels for a second, the reasons being:
they were a third cheaper
very easy to take out for repair and replace
having no drag
no folding props
no dissimilar metals and no anodes
engines push the boat up to 8 knots
Great maneuverability
Relatively easy to service when the boat is beached

The downside,
they do use more fuel, on one engine at 5 knots still using 3 litres per hour
some cavitation with a beam sea
No hot water
not much charging--I rely on solar and wind anyway

If I was doing it again, I'd go the same way--the hondas are great even though they have a hard life
Phil

[brad torrence]

I've been tempted by boats with saildrives, as around here they are worth quite a bit less than the same boat with shaft drive (maybe 10-15k less). However, after reading this article in Cruising World, I'll steer clear. It looks like boatbuilders got a steady income from parts and repairs (just read the article!), while reducing costs for installation and warranties. (It's the engine manufacturer's problem now). And boat owners got a high maintenance item with expensive parts that they can't replace themselves.
https://www.cruisingworld.com/saildrive-maintenance

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by brad torrence

I've been tempted by boats with saildrives, as around here they are worth quite a bit less than the same boat with shaft drive (maybe 10-15k less). However, after reading this article in Cruising World, I'll steer clear. It looks like boatbuilders got a steady income from parts and repairs (just read the article!), while reducing costs for installation and warranties. (It's the engine manufacturer's problem now). And boat owners got a high maintenance item with expensive parts that they can't replace themselves.
https://www.cruisingworld.com/saildrive-maintenance

Apparently, this is truth. It's almost impossible nowadays to find production catamaran (even bigger one!) with shaft drive.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by brad torrence

I've been tempted by boats with saildrives, as around here they are worth quite a bit less than the same boat with shaft drive (maybe 10-15k less). However, after reading this article in Cruising World, I'll steer clear. It looks like boatbuilders got a steady income from parts and repairs (just read the article!), while reducing costs for installation and warranties. (It's the engine manufacturer's problem now). And boat owners got a high maintenance item with expensive parts that they can't replace themselves.
https://www.cruisingworld.com/saildrive-maintenance

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Apparently, this is truth. It's almost impossible nowadays to find production catamaran (even bigger one!) with shaft drive.

Which part is truth?

People scared away from saildrives by some writer who have never owned a saildrive is comical. The blind leading the blind.

I don't view my saildrives as high maintenance items. Yes, they require preventative maintenance along with other systems on a boat.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Which part is truth?
I don't view my saildrives as high maintenance items. Yes, they require preventative maintenance along with other systems on a boat.

Here's my point of view. On the boat there are lots and lots of things requiring constant attention, maintenance, repairs. But not all of them working in equal conditions. On the boat there are two major factors leading to failures and repairs. Salt water and moisture in the air. Less systems in contact with either of these factors - better. And adding one more system, which is in constant contact with salt water (sail drive) is very bad idea in long term. Especially - an expensive to repair system - unless boat is beached, sail drive repair requires haul-out.

So, for me - dehumidifiers throughout the boat, shaft drives would be best choice.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Here's my point of view. On the boat there are lots and lots of things requiring constant attention, maintenance, repairs. But not all of them working in equal conditions. On the boat there are two major factors leading to failures and repairs. Salt water and moisture in the air. Less systems in contact with either of these factors - better. And adding one more system, which is in constant contact with salt water (sail drive) is very bad idea in long term. Especially - an expensive to repair system - unless boat is beached, sail drive repair requires haul-out.

So, for me - dehumidifiers throughout the boat, shaft drives would be best choice.

I disagree, the leading cause of failure is lack of proper maintenance. So, one who disregards routine maintenance will not like saildrives, if you ignore them they will become expensive.

FYI, bottom paint requires beaching or haul out also. The clever ones perform routine saildrive maintenance at the same time.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by tyrntlzrdking

Hello,

I have been comparing boats trying to decide which would be the best one for me. I would like to to long range cruising. Maybe a circumnavigation. I have done a lot of reading and asked some very experienced and knowledgable people for their opinions.

I am coming to the conclusion that for long range cruising, a shaft drive or prop shaft is much better than what seems to be the more typical saildrive.

How do you feel about this?

Which boats in the 35 to 42 foot range came with, or now come with a shaft drive?

Thanks,
Jeff Lessnau

Hi. If a shaft drive you will have the choice of straight shaft or v-drive.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I disagree, the leading cause of failure is lack of proper maintenance. So, one who disregards routine maintenance will not like saildrives, if you ignore them they will become expensive.

FYI, bottom paint requires beaching or haul out also. The clever ones perform routine saildrive maintenance at the same time.

Ok, let me rephrase - "salt water and moisture are leading causes of failures on the boat when proper maintenance is performed".

The proper maintenance includes regular boat cleaning. If bottom was painted properly using good paint, and bottom gets regular cleaning as required, boat won't need another bottom paint job for the next few years. Are you sure your sail drives will be fine for so long as well?

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Ok, let me rephrase - "salt water and moisture are leading causes of failures on the boat when proper maintenance is performed".

The proper maintenance includes regular boat cleaning. If bottom was painted properly using good paint, and bottom gets regular cleaning as required, boat won't need another bottom paint job for the next few years. Are you sure your sail drives will be fine for so long as well?

Yes.

Bottom paint with proper cleaning lasts anywhere from 18-36 months depending on quality of installation and matching best paint formula for region traveled.

Saildrives require the following: Lip seal replacement at every haulout. Prop shaft replacement (or rebuild) when lip seal wears gouges in the shaft (in my experience ~2500 hours). Lower unit bearing replacement @ 5000+ hours ..??

Not sure what you are imaging will go wrong.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Yes.

Bottom paint with proper cleaning lasts anywhere from 18-36 months depending on quality of installation and matching best paint formula for region traveled.

Hmm, strange understatement. What about real antifouling paint with copper? As far as I know, Delos was painted (not with copper paint) last time few years ago, before crossing Indian Ocean. That's "a bit" more than 36 months. Also, when antifouling paint was discussed on CF, many guys stated that good paint will last 5 years and more with regular cleaning.
When I would be choosing antifouling paint, I definitely would choose the one that lasts (and that proved by people) as long as possible.
Minor dripping from shaft drive - no big deal. Small leak of sail drive seal - water in oil and very quick drive kaput.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Hmm, strange understatement. What about real antifouling paint with copper? As far as I know, Delos was painted (not with copper paint) last time few years ago, before crossing Indian Ocean. That's "a bit" more than 36 years. Also, when antifouling paint was ddiscussed on CF, many guys stated that good paint will last 5 years and more with regular cleaning.

I'm quoting my experience, what's is yours?

I seriously doubt any ablative paint claim of lasting 5 years in the tropics.

BTW, I'll let both Micron and Seahawk know you don't think their product is real bottom paint!

So, you have zero experience with bottom paint and zero experience with saildrives, yet you have a strong opinion on both?

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I'm quoting my experience, what's is yours?

I seriously doubt any ablative paint claim of lasting 5 years in the tropics.

BTW, I'll let both Micron and Seahawk know you don't think their product is real bottom paint!

So, you have zero experience with bottom paint and zero experience with saildrives, yet you have a strong opinion on both?

Should I ask permission to have opinion in the future? Please, may I?
My opinion is based on other people's experience and on my own (if any). In this case your opinion - just single one, but I saw MANY others that are very different from yours.
In fact, I don't know single thing about you, but I've SEEN Delos experience with my own eyes. May be you're internet-troll who works for sail-drive manufacturer, who knows?

Real bottom paint - one from pre-"enviro-friendly" BS. I don't think that any of companies you've mentioned making such paint today. But it doesn't mean you can't buy or make it today. And don't try to sell me your opinion about enviro-friendly stuff.
Cheers.

PS. I can tell you even more - even cars today are painted with enviro-friendly water-based paint which is simply trash in many ways. Just to keep you entertained - now you can go and tell to many other paint manufacturers that I'm not happy with their paint.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Should I ask permission to have opinion in the future? Please, may I?
My opinion is based on other people experience and on my own (if any). In this case your opinion - just single one, but I saw MANY others that are very different from yours.
In fact, I don't know single thing about you, but I've SEEN Delos experience with my own eyes. May be you're internet-troll who works for sail-drive manufacturer, who knows?

Real bottom paint - one from pre-"enviro-friendly" BS. I don't think that any of companies you've mentioned making such paint today. But it doesn't mean you can't buy or make it today. And don't try to sell me your opinion about enviro-friendly stuff.
Cheers.

PS. I can tell you even more - even cars today are painted with enviro-friendly water-based paint which is simply trash in many terms. Just to keep you entertained - now you can go and tell to many other paint manufacturers that I'm not happy with their paint.

I don't understand this phenomenon, but I'm sure there is a name for the desire to offer an opinion on a topic where one has zero experience/knowledge, maybe narcissism?

In the future, when you express your opinion, please disclose if your knowledge was gained via personal experience or from living your life thru others via the Internet.