S/V Zingaro down for the count.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Just another example of someone having no idea whatsoever, but deciding to comment anyway.

The little I remember about geometry and trig. he could be somewhat correct. However it doesn't mean a multihull can't be designed and built for the stresses. In my humble opinion shortening sail on a multi is more important than a mono. PS keels don't drop off most multihulls.

[Franziska]

Guys, come on, do we really need another pointless mono vs. multi discussion here?
That horse has been beaten to death many times over.
Just leave that aspect alone.
Please. Thank you.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Being fully aware of the old saw, "if you don't have something nice to say...",

Perhaps this may seem a bit harsh; stuff, after all, does happen. Though it seems that it happens inordinately more to to the unprepared and inexperienced than otherwise...

It sometimes takes fortitude to speak an unpopular truth. You were not harsh, but truthful in your assessment.
Good seamanship is founded in preparation.

[Go Wildcats]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Being fully aware of the old saw, "if you don't have something nice to say...",
it's very hard to avoid commenting on the amount of romanticization of the exploits and actions portrayed here.

.....

While it is good that there were only economic casualties, I'm not so sure that congratulations are in order, for a number of reasons. I'd go so far as to say that this might have better been posted under the recent "Are Youtubers ruining it..." thread...

.....

Which brings me back to the main point. It's all good to be 'entertained' by 'hard-scrabble' stories of people making do by their 'wits and a prayer'. If you want to finance those things, it's your money.

But keep this in mind.

The crew of the Zingaro set sail in a questionable vessel on a open-ocean, straight line voyage of about 1300 miles. Though they seem to think that not setting off their Epirb has some kind of, I don't know, cruz cred?, they still had the luxury of a new 154', 65 million dollar rescue ship 'professionally' manned to deliver 15 gallons of diesel and escort them to safety.

Just out of curiosity, made some loose and fast calculations.

65 million $ vessel, 20 year life span, 1 day rent ...9000.00
24 crew 400.00/crew/day....................................9600.00
(admitted that might be high per person for CGC,
but land based support isn't included, so I think
it evens out)
9846 gallon diesel @ 2.50/gal............................61538.00
(based on 16 hrs cruise, 10000 hp @ .4 lb/hp)

For a total of 80,138.00 or 5342.53 per gallon, delivered.

Putting themselves and others at risk (though I'd think 30 knot winds and 20 foot seas would be more of a training exercise for the crew of a new USCG Fast Response Cutter) as a result of inexperience or lack of planning (what else besides diesel was missing for this 1300 mile as-the-crow-flies voyage?), or for whatever reason, does not seem to me to be a cause for anything but a careful examination of their goals and the methods used for achieving them.

Perhaps this may seem a bit harsh; stuff, after all, does happen. Though it seems that it happens inordinately more to to the unprepared and inexperienced than otherwise...


But if I've assumed too much from the admittedly sketchy details supplied here, I'll gladly issue an apology when corrected.

I just want to point out that the CG ship and crew are paid and used regardless of any call or incident. The argument that using them cost money is baseless. The cost and operating expenses are present every minute of every day. There's possibly the argument of placing them in harms way, but that's what they are hired to do. Oh, and volunteered for. I much prefer the use of public funds to assist people than most others.

[simonhantler]

James and kimmi, much respect. You guys are real troopers, don’t listen to any wankers saying otherwise. This kiwi is happy to help you with a few bucks in the kitty. Anyone who has watched one of Zingaro vids should help out with a few bucks, this is when they need our help guys. Do you have a paypal account?

[thlamers]

FWIW, old ply multis only have a finite lifetime, particularly in hot and humid locations. Wood fibers break down, ply laminates separate and poly-glass looses adhesion. Have seen many of that construction written off due to age. Epoxy better but still a calculated risk.

[mvweebles]

https://www.paypal.me/sailingzingaro

I have no connection to them - didn't know they existed prior to the bad news. Just figured that if I met them at a beach bar, I'd happily buy them a round so sent a donation.

Originally Posted by simonhantler

James and kimmi, much respect. You guys are real troopers, don’t listen to any wankers saying otherwise. This kiwi is happy to help you with a few bucks in the kitty. Anyone who has watched one of Zingaro vids should help out with a few bucks, this is when they need our help guys. Do you have a paypal account?

[smj]

Originally Posted by thlamers

FWIW, old ply multis only have a finite lifetime, particularly in hot and humid locations. Wood fibers break down, ply laminates separate and poly-glass looses adhesion. Have seen many of that construction written off due to age. Epoxy better but still a calculated risk.

Everything has a finite lifetime but a well built and well maintained epoxy/ply boat will have as long or a longer lifetime than a solid fiberglass boat if well maintained. Key word’s WELL MAINTAINED.

[ctskip]

Not caring which way this episode ends up I have to agree with the way jimbunyard put it. From the signs of rot stains to the areas he has looked at, I must agree . When it comes to adventure, one must have the equipment and the knowledge to know when it’s not enough. There is no substitute for experience.

[Pelagic]

I think James has already stated that he no longer trusts Zingaro's hull ....so lambasting him about latent (hidden) defects on an old boat... is kind of stupid!

He did what he had to do at sea to save his boat and I am sure he would be the fist to shrug it off as 'intense at the time, but not really a big deal'

THAT deserves even greater respect than imagined heroics

I am quite sure this couple will move on with a positive attitude to experience more adventures and I wish them the best of fortune.
(Which actually favors those who are doing it rather than those criticising it)

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by KP44

An uneducated but sincere question.

I assume Beneteau is built like most modern boats and the keel is integral to the hull. It is not a separate peace that can come apart or break off.

As far as heel: Only in the worst weather, have we ever had enough heel to have things slide off the table. Of course, racers heel over their boats and they seem to enjoy it. I don't see that with many cruisers. Most of us enjoy a pretty easy sailing life.

Umm, well, no, that's NOT how most modern production monos are built. They use bolt-on fin keels, many with bulb or wing mass centers at the very bottom. Encapsulated ballast keels are fairly rare these days, but a few are still produced, and there are plenty of legacy hulls with such design.

If you need some reminders, google "cheeki rafiki" to see a well publicized example of a Bene's bolt-on keel failure.

Of course, bolt-on keels can be engineered to be "bullet proof" and many are. Encapsulated keels can be engineered to be frail and have problems, and some have been. Good engineering and production can lead to successful designs of many varieties... the devil is in the details!

Jim

[jeepers]

Available.. $19,900
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/b...024348841.html
2000 Gemeni cat 34ft. Project boat most of the glass work complete. Mast and sails are in great shape. No help needed in sell no brokers. Onboard diesel being pulled out being replaced with outboard not provided. Must leave a phone number for response.

[jeepers]

Another
https://corpuschristi.craigslist.org...046862153.html
1986 $5295 The Gemini 3000 Catamaran is a well tested design that has proven itself by it's sailing characteristics, and cruising comfort. She is a hard vessel to come by in today's pre-owned market. Make your crew content while sailing fast without the worrisome heeling. The words "don't make it tip" will no longer be heard. Accommodations are exceptionally spacious for a 31' cruising sailboat. The Gemini is a dream to sail; both easy and predictable with an impressive turn of speed.

https://daytona.craigslist.org/boa/d...046247536.html
1992 $18000 38' cruising catamaran sailboat with two queen size berths, 4 solar panel setup, wind generator, pressurized water system, 1 head(toilet), davit for dinghy, aluminum propane tank in propane locker, and kick up rudders. Has 1 mainsail and 1 jib, in serviceable condition, could use some attention/repairs. 44' mast with aluminum folding mast steps. Constructed of Phillipine mahogany with epoxy fiberglass throughout. Has mini keels. Can float in as little as 3 feet of water, and is designed to rest on mini keels and rudders so bottom can be cleaned on outgoing tide.

[MEC]

Congratulations to James and Kim for bringing her to port in spite of massive structural failure. "Lacing" the hulls and bridge deck together with cordage demonstrated creativity in harsh conditions.


A proper survey can't be made by viewing three photos, nevertheless first impressions are:
1) bridge cross beam appears to be spliced at a location of maximum sheer.
2) bridge beam splice fasteners are not staggered across beam depth, the thru fasteners appear to be in the same plane thru the beam.
3) Beam depth (height?) has reasonable scantlings, except for the mouse-hole cut out centered on the hull. Failure occurred at a plane 45 deg (shear) thru the minimum beam "height".
4) View from aft shows the deck beam terminating at a position half way across the hull width, which means this joint would be sensitive to hull rotational bending moments "twisting" along the hull axis.
5) View of delaminated fiberglass skin on the inside hull to deck joint implies skin cracking and delamination has existed for a long period of time (rust stains) before the final failure occurred. This suggests the starboard hull to bridge deck joint experienced high sheer loads well before the final failure occurred.


These guys sailed a yacht not designed for the duty and well past her expected lifetime.



I hope Jim and Kim find the courage to salvage this boat, and then undertake a search to acquire an all oceans sailing yacht having proper scantlings to continue their pursuit.



This horse took them as far as she could, got them to land safely.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I guess this incident proves monohulls just aren't suited to long term sailing?



https://content.govdelivery.com/acco...letins/27435ed

Well not really. It says boat was disabled due to engine room fire which could be twice as likely on a cat?

But regardless this has nothing to do with cat or mono. Cats are equally suited for blue water presuming that is part of their design brief, just like monos. A rotting plywood mono would have suffered the same fate.