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26-06-2018, 04:00
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 3,755
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
We bought a 400S2 owners / 2 head version last year, suits perfectly for 2 confortably cruising. Sport bridge, no fly bridge for the smaller lagoons up to 42ft.
Plenty of room compared to other makes, even larger cats. Lagoons have wider hulls and are quite beamy...
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26-06-2018, 06:53
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Currently cruising the Philippines, just got back from PNG & Solomons
Boat: Wauquiez 45' (now 48') catamaran
Posts: 1,088
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Heath, there's a definite spectrum of boats, from racing to cruising, & we all need to decide where we want to live/cruise in that spectrum. For us, we're more towards the comfort side, but I would never put to sea in a boat that can't claw its way off a lee shore in a 40kt blow. For us, galley up (with headroom for my 6' wife) & single (central) steering were the important issues, as I didn't want to send our kids out to the aft corners on night-watch (which removed a host of French cats from consideration).
I agree with previous comments that building a boat, given your apparently limited experience, would bring up a million decisions that you're probably not ready to answer until you get some more experience. Better to look for existing options.
As far as the boats you mention, St. Francis went bankrupt, & Knysna bought the molds, so there's essentially no difference between them. I'm not a fan of the Privilege, but mainly for the small salon & the HUGE windows looking right at the tropical sun, which is probably more of a personal issue (& that fwd cabin looks awesome). All the S African cats have low bridge-deck clearance (as do we) but it turns out not to be that important, especially for a normal trade-wind circumnavigation.
Surprisingly, our friends with a St. Francis find their light weight makes for a bumpier ride. Enough so that when we both left Fiji (in 25-30kts from the beam in lumpy conditions) they couldn't take it. After 6 hours they were 4nm ahead of us, but they called to say they had to turn back. They were less than a knot faster, but our motion was much more comfortable & we weren't anywhere near wanting to turn around. Sometimes a fast boat isn't the best boat.
Good luck!
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26-06-2018, 13:29
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Indonesia
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 3,804
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Regarding exposed helms on the aft corners a la Catana, for passage making it’s pretty much irrelevant because you will be using your autopilot just about exclusively. Being on watch simply means being in the cockpit or in the salon and keeping a lookout for weather, boat problems and other vessels, things or land. It doesn’t necessarily mean standing or sitting at the helm station gripping the wheel.
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26-06-2018, 19:00
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Currently cruising the Philippines, just got back from PNG & Solomons
Boat: Wauquiez 45' (now 48') catamaran
Posts: 1,088
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty
Regarding exposed helms on the aft corners a la Catana, for passage making it’s pretty much irrelevant because you will be using your autopilot just about exclusively. Being on watch simply means being in the cockpit or in the salon and keeping a lookout for weather, boat problems and other vessels, things or land. It doesn’t necessarily mean standing or sitting at the helm station gripping the wheel.
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Foxy, I submit that aft helms are more of a racing layout, & keeping a proper forward watch usually means sitting at the helm seat. The helmsperson can see the sails better, but they're out in the elements with little or no protection, the instruments need to be duplicated, & since there's usually only one set of engine controls, the helm can't see the far corner of the boat for docking. I'm not putting dual aft helms down, I'm saying that *we* didn't want them, & the OP seems more into cruising than racing.
Our helm seat seats 3 & is ~12' from the edge of the boat, which is what we wanted for our family cruising. On many designs, this layout takes up a lot of cockpit space, but our helm seat rotates down to become one of our cockpit table seats.
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28-06-2018, 21:57
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Hacking
For us, we're more towards the comfort side, but I would never put to sea in a boat that can't claw its way off a lee shore in a 40kt blow. For us, galley up (with headroom for my 6' wife) & single (central) steering were the important issues, as I didn't want to send our kids out to the aft corners on night-watch (which removed a host of French cats from consideration).
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Jon,
Sounds interesting. What boat do you have that fits these requirements?
JT
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29-06-2018, 00:17
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Currently cruising the Philippines, just got back from PNG & Solomons
Boat: Wauquiez 45' (now 48') catamaran
Posts: 1,088
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3lphi
Jon, Sounds interesting. What boat do you have that fits these requirements? -- JT
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JT, I'd welcome you to CF, as it says this is your first post, but I see you've been lurking for several years.
Ocelot is a Kronos 45 that we've stretched to 48' by extending the sugar-scoops into swim-platforms. She's designed & built by Frenchman Henri Wauquiez, who's more famous for his monohull designs. Few people know he built 13 Kronos cats in the early 90s. Most went into charter in St. Martin (NE Caribbean) & we bought ours from Sunsail there in 2001. We've been live-aboard cruisers since then (& also in the 80s).
Ocelot has a unique (AFAIK) feature that we love but that wasn't on our list: the cockpit is 2 steps up from the salon. This means that we can easily see forward from ANYwhere in the cockpit, not just the helm-seat. It also gives us (too much) storage space under the cockpit. You can see more info on our Ocelot page.
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29-06-2018, 11:28
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Hacking
JT, I'd welcome you to CF, as it says this is your first post, but I see you've been lurking for several years.:whistling
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Thanks Jon, yeah I guess 7 and 1/2 years is a long time to lurk...
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30-06-2018, 14:37
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Boat: Formally a Leopard 45
Posts: 144
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Hi Jon,
I know you have many years under your belt, and so I say this respectfully, however your information on Privilege, Saint Francis and the south African boats are either incorrect or dated. Saint Francis did sell their old 44 foot molds to Knysna, which is how the got their start, (years and years ago) but they never went bankrupt and they replaced it with a 48, then 50 foot boat that they have been building ever since and it is widely recognized among the finest of cruising machines. Regarding the Privilege’s, the salon windows you are referring to started to be phased out in 2007 with the introduction of the 515 (now updated to be the Serie 5. Regarding the South African boats and in particular I assume you’re talking about Leopard, the low bridge deck clearance issue went away when they changed designers to Morelli & Melvin in 2006 with the introduction of the Leopard 46, a boat you could drive a dinghy under ( they no longer use M&M but the high bridge deck clearence has been retained). Best regards,
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30-06-2018, 18:38
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Currently cruising the Philippines, just got back from PNG & Solomons
Boat: Wauquiez 45' (now 48') catamaran
Posts: 1,088
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Coconuts, thanks for the update. Yes, my info was dated (& largely my opinions). And thanks for the polite reply. All too rare on many forums.
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30-06-2018, 19:58
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Nautitech Open 46 Cat
Posts: 16
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
I was in Trinidad this week and saw a picture of one of the most beautiful 50 foot cats I've ever seen. She was custom built by a man named Peter something. They are familiar with him at Power Boats yard. You can ask for Salisha or Don, the recently retired manager and they can put you in touch with this guy. They said he could build you a boat for the budget you are referring to. I'm not kidding, the exterior of this boat was absolutely stunning. Good luck
__________________
Windrider9999
aka Jeff
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01-07-2018, 00:06
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Hi Heath,
We are located in Durban, South Africa
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01-07-2018, 00:28
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Boat: St Francis 48Turbo
Posts: 534
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Quote:
Originally Posted by windrider9999
I was in Trinidad this week and saw a picture of one of the most beautiful 50 foot cats I've ever seen. She was custom built by a man named Peter something. They are familiar with him at Power Boats yard. You can ask for Salisha or Don, the recently retired manager and they can put you in touch with this guy. They said he could build you a boat for the budget you are referring to. I'm not kidding, the exterior of this boat was absolutely stunning. Good luck
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Thanks for the advise. I have certainly been toying with the idea of having one built and had even talked to some designers. I too have seen some lovely designs, one of which is currently in production by a poster in CF.
The reasons for not going down this route are that i have little knowledge of good/bad equipment manufacturers, nor experience telling me what would be inadvisable or impractical on a boat I intend to keep and sail for a long time... And finally the cost would be less definite with a custom made cat, whereas I can see the price of a used cat and then only need to factor an ongoing ownership figure (my other questions in CF have been around these issues)
Heath
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03-07-2018, 01:13
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Afloat - Mediteranean
Boat: Lagoon 450 F
Posts: 387
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath68
Don't get me wrong there are many many people who love Lagoons but some have a flybridge and that didn't suit us (I read as much as i could about good sailing boats and learnt a lot from the Antares website.. very informative and I suppose formed some of my views about what is important for us on a boat ( The protected helm – Antares Catamarans by 40 Grados Sur or https://catamaranconcepts.com/ ) and when we looked around them they was (for us) no USP (unique selling point).. they looked very capable but were not luxurious (compared to X5 or 515 for example) nor fast (compared to catana etc)... so we thought they were a very good "average". But if we are going to spend that sort of money why settle for something just because it got 7/10 on everything? Does that make sense?
Heath
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When we were searching for boats, we had EXACTLY the same opinions about helms and flybridges. It was a non starter.
Then we tried one.
Then we bought a Lagoon 450F Owners version, and havn't looked back. We LOVE the flybridge. Even in weather. (at least so far). For reference it is our only home now, and is (slowly) headed off around the world. We've customized it extensively.
However, if its really a showstopper, check out the 450S or 52S Sport Top versions.
Just some food for thought.
Regards
Mark.
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22-08-2018, 11:03
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
I’ve skippered several cats in the 40-50ft range, including two Knysna 500SEs (owner and charter versions) and a Knysna 440. I’ve always been impressed with their performance, and I’ve sailed in some pretty rough weather! Not only do they look great, they are also easy to sail single handed, and their accommodation and custom finish is of a very high standard. Very few Knysna’s come up for resale, but I believe a 500SE owners version, has recently come on the market. Check out the owner’s blog at John Cavill
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27-08-2018, 12:56
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Boat: St Francis 48Turbo
Posts: 534
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Re: Round and Round in Circles
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilvd
I’ve skippered several cats in the 40-50ft range, including two Knysna 500SEs (owner and charter versions) and a Knysna 440. I’ve always been impressed with their performance, and I’ve sailed in some pretty rough weather! Not only do they look great, they are also easy to sail single handed, and their accommodation and custom finish is of a very high standard. Very few Knysna’s come up for resale, but I believe a 500SE owners version, has recently come on the market. Check out the owner’s blog at John Cavill
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Thanks for that. Have you slippered any Privilege 515/series 5, At Francis or Dean 5000s? Do you have an opinion about how well each my do in light winds?
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