Rigging a symetrical spinnaker on Leopard 44

[capn_billl]

After repeatedly either the wind is on the nose, or directly astern, I've decided to add some downwind capability.

The swept WAY back shrouds on this boat make any main angles larger than 45 degrees useless,, so I've purchased a spinnaker.

I have the halyard setup, but there is zero deck hardware in the front half of the boat not already dedicated to the Jib.

I bought a couple of heavy 1/2" snatch blocks, and a bunch of spinlock lifeline rail turning blocks.

I've seen on Youtube people usually have two lines on each side, one down, and one straight out.

SO I need 4 clutches? or can I tie two of them to the bow cleats?

Eventually if I'm going to keep this sail up a lot, I'm gonna need to run all the lines to the cockpit, plus a line to dowse it.

I have a chute tube, and sock, but grabbing the continuous line while the spinnaker is deployed could be challenging.

I'm thinking of adding a small flying block to a small line running back to the mast so I can grab it to retrieve the sock line.

Is this sound thinking?

How does everyone else do it?

[jackdale]

Do you have a bow sprit?

[ggray]

You should still consider an A spin.

On multihull, tacking downwind is quite productive. (And cooler when it's hot because of the apparent wind.) I could carry the sail down to 150* apparent, but it was probably about 165* true, so not too far off DDW.

And with the beam of a multihull, you can fly the A spin wing and wing.

So I won't/can't comment on your rigging questions other than that you need to leave some slack in the snuffer downhaul to allow the head of the sail to rise unimpeded

[capn_billl]

No bowsprit.

I thought of an Asym, but more trouble.

I could just get an oversized genoa, but I have plenty of sail, just need to cover DDW.

[Sos]

With our sym' spinnaker we have a sprung block on each bow. Down lines go through these and tie off deck cleats. The sheets then go to turning blocks at the stern and then to small winches. Once set-up doesn't seem to need much adjustment. We also have a bucket and sock to douse it.

[chrisr]

usual arrangement on a cat is twin downhauls lead from each bow aft to winches, usually via a rope clutch.

these downhauls are both attached to the tack of the spinnaker. this system allows you to move the tack to the weather bow if square and midships if reaching. simply balance each line to move the tack where you want it

the sheets lead through turning blocks on the aft quarters, to winches (probably the same ones that the downhauls lead to)

it's a very easy system which does away with a pole, pole topping lift & pole down haul

can be used with symmetric kite or A-sails (most cats favour the A-sail)

as regards the continuous line on the sock : make sure it is long enough to keep the loop tied off at the mast

gybeing without a bowsprit can be a challenge. usually easiest to snuff the kite and then re-launch on the new side

if very square it's also fairly normal not to set the main. just messes up the kite

here's a few typical set ups







cheers,

[tamicatana]

I've got a symmetrical chute off my Catana 40S that may work for you and I'll make you a helluva deal. PM if interested

here is us flying it like an assym, but it is symmetrical:

[team karst]

I do quite well without the complexity of long tack lines running aft. Just use a cam cleat near the sprit. Is there big value in adjustable tack length?
The clew is another matter. Needs winch(es)

[team karst]

Originally Posted by team karst

I do quite well without the complexity of long tack lines running aft. Just use a cam cleat near the sprit. Is there big value in adjustable tack length?
The clew is another matter. Needs winch(es)

Sorry, must mention this is for asym sail

[Moontide]

Here is how I run with a spinnaker - Lagoon 470.


Two lines on each clew. One sheet and one tack line. The tack lines go to a block on the bow and then back to winches at the base of the mast. Could also just cleat off on the bow cleats but would be harder to adjust.



The sheets run back to a block the stern quarters and up to sheet winches on the cabin top.


If running deep I either run off the two tack lines with sheets slack, or twing the sheets down to the midships cleats and up to the winches on the cabin top.



As far as the sock line, I always tie it off at the mast so that it cannot get wrapped or otherwise fouled in the chute. When dousing I overtrim the sheet and blow the tack line so that it collapses behind the main. Have seen many fight getting it socked when they blow the sheet and try to pull down off the tack line. Never figured out the reason for that fight.

[nextis12]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

After repeatedly either the wind is on the nose, or directly astern, I've decided to add some downwind capability.



The swept WAY back shrouds on this boat make any main angles larger than 45 degrees useless,, so I've purchased a spinnaker.



I have the halyard setup, but there is zero deck hardware in the front half of the boat not already dedicated to the Jib.



I bought a couple of heavy 1/2" snatch blocks, and a bunch of spinlock lifeline rail turning blocks.



I've seen on Youtube people usually have two lines on each side, one down, and one straight out.



SO I need 4 clutches? or can I tie two of them to the bow cleats?



Eventually if I'm going to keep this sail up a lot, I'm gonna need to run all the lines to the cockpit, plus a line to dowse it.



I have a chute tube, and sock, but grabbing the continuous line while the spinnaker is deployed could be challenging.



I'm thinking of adding a small flying block to a small line running back to the mast so I can grab it to retrieve the sock line.



Is this sound thinking?



How does everyone else do it?

The symmetrical setup we have on the Lagoon 42 is simple and works great. No need for a bowsprit. There are two eye pads on the bow and a soft shackle the guys run through back to another soft shackle next to the sheet block, there are two winches toward the aft of the boat. The sock is just tied off to a cleat near the bow.

Add a barber hauler to the sheet and it is simple to trim.

We went with a symmetrical since we have a roller furling gennakar that fills that role nicely.

[Library70]

Something else to think about: we don't raise the mainsail when using our sym spinnaker on our Lagoon 410 but we do tension the topping lift and main sheet to offset the forward pressure on the mast.

[jackdale]

I would recommend keeping the mainsail up. It provides for a means of blanketing the gennaker if the wind picks up and needs to be doused.. It also helps to balance the boat.

In light air you can centre the main to get more air on the gennaker.

As a rule, I get the main up as soon as possible after getting underway.

[tamicatana]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I would recommend keeping the mainsail up. It provides for a means of blanketing the gennaker if the wind picks up and needs to be doused.. It also helps to balance the boat.

In light air you can centre the main to get more air on the gennaker.

As a rule, I get the main up as soon as possible after getting underway.

Thank you. It is rare to see anyone who knows this.

[catsketcher]

Some good advice above on symmetrical kites. I sold my assy and now only have a symmetrical and a Code 0. The assy was a pain without wind gear linked to the autopilot.

I use a slightly altered system. I use two blocks at each bow that the single clew line runs through. These are cleated off at the bows, on the mooring cleats. For square running the lines are tight. To adjust for more reaching ability I ease one of the bow lines. My boat is pretty much on the edge for me being able to pull the bow line back on if needed (at 38ft) but this does allow me to use only one line, which is nice in lighter winds. If the breeze comes up the Code 0 gets put up instead.

Some posters advise putting the main up as well. I understand the reason for this this but really hate doing it. An oversheeted main going square is a real anathema to me, as it makes the boat much harder to steer, or at least, the boat does not sail as beautifully as it does with it down. I love the feel of the boat under kite alone - she just glides and steering the boat with the rig is a fundamental part of being a good sailor on most boats. But you do have a problem with getting the kite down without the mains blanketing effect. The key for me is to keep her going fast and use the reduction in apparent when surging or even surfing. Speed on a square is your friend here. (And strong winching muscles and well lubed slides)

My rig is spreaderless. I can winch the main up if I keep the boat going fast under kite. It takes about 5 minutes and I wind the halyard each time the boat starts to surge and the apparent drops. For boats with spreaders it is a pain to raise the main on a square but it can be done on some boats. This allows you to sail without the main until the wind blows up and then to raise the main under kite and drop the kite in the lee of the main.

I have started using a different method as well for mainless dropping. I blow the tack line and pull the kite sheet (on either side) hard back all the way to the block. The luff is pretty straight to the block. For my boat this is about 80% of the way aft. Then I check to kite is blowing along the deck of the boat, not flagging out to leeward (steer straight here). Then just blow the halyard and take the kite down like a race boat with the sheet hard on still - no sock. I stand near the block and pull the kite down in and in. The kite lands on the deck and you can put it in a normal race style kite bag. This technique seems to work well and it uses the wide beam of a cat and the clear deck to stop the kite going in the water (although you still have to scoop it up before the head lands in the water). You also need to make sure you don't pop the kite onto your spreaders, but this is hard to do unless you veer around wildly.

I am an ex racer, so the main hard on offends my senses and stops me enjoying the gliding sensation my boats gets when she is led only by the nose. And I like the fun of a good kite set and drop. But that is probably a minority view.

cheers

Phil