Replace Generator or switch to 100% solar/wind?

[cat-keys]

Actually just replaced this with a new xantrex true sine wave 2000w inverter. So should be enough to run a small 4000btu unit.

[B28_Majic]

There is a lot of misinformation in here that I would like to clear up. There are True DC units (Thermodinamica 16,000, 24V - Mabru 5,000, 7,000, and 12,000,12v - Cruise N Comfort 6k, 9k @12v and 8k, 11k @24v - Dometic 3,500 @12v) I pretty sure that is every one and then you have 120v/ 230v units running through an inverter.

DC units are significantly more efficient in tests that I have seen and the good ones are variable speed so as heat load decreases, so does consumption.

I am with Mabru as a full disclosure so I know that system best but I have worked with others as well as having tried running 115v systems off of inverters. Our 12,000BTU 115v unit draws about 100A @12v through an inverter vs the 12,000 12v at full speed drawing 42A. We can then slow down the 12k once reaching set temp to draw less than 20A.

I have seen vessels out there with 2kW in solar alone and for them a 12v system is the ideal way to go. Deciding between full 12v and generator is a big decision to make and each way has its complications so its a matter of deciding what your particular use will be and which option would suit you best.

[170122]

It is amazing how some people are far from understanding the real value of ultra efficient DC 12V air cond units, I have 4 air of them in my boat, and two 250A alternators, solar panels, spectra water maker, I save all the water from my air conditioning units for a rinsing water tank">fresh water tank. All my units are 12 DC, 3 X7000 BTU and one 12000BTU, of course my battery charger can handle all of them and charge my house Lithium Iron bank, 4X 250amp hour 8D, the weight is 64lbs for each, those smart batteries are amazing, double the real capacity of my old AGM battery Mastervolt, on top they protected by an internal battery Managment system. I still have my generator but when I did the last refit I down grated to a 5 KW, Kohler, before I had an 8KW but was very hard to service it.
The salon 12000BTU run on 12V during the day and consume 44a 12V and 2.3A on 230v 50/60 hz international power, alt night not only this unit will slow down to 20a but also is very quiet. 1amp on 230V.
The other units are amazing quiet, compact and efficient, day time when you turn them up they run at full speed to be able to achieve a comfort zone 27.8 amps, then slow down to 15amp to keep the temp and humidity down, temperature is always constant that it is a pleasure. 1.4amps in 230 V at full and 0.73 amp at low.. The results in summer 95F out and 74F in the full consumption is max 138 amps including pumps. We are getting 7 hours Continuos on batteries with out damaging them and keeping the voltage not less that 11.8V, Lithium Iron batteries can also absorb the energy much faster so we have a large inverter charger able to help the house charger. When we are cruising the two engine Blamar alternators are handling the load, they are connected to the AGM engine bat but the main house is connected to several DC to DC - AGM to Lithium.
I see that few people understand the maintenance of generators, every 200 hours, zincs, oil, impeller, and approx 1 gal diesel per hour.
Solar panels are kind of practical for one unit, but no more, so generator average run about 2 hours day..we also have 3 refrigerators 12V, one is a drawer freezer/ refrigerator, the second is a small vegetable, and a freezer is top load under a seat.

[170122]

First do what is necessary, them what is possible, you will end up with the impossible, Teslas are selling 500000 cars a year and they do not have an engine, the era of AGM batteries is over, Lithium Iron silicone are in.. my little apple computer runs all day in a single charge.
Boats with 12V DC air conditioning units are doing just as fine with good alternators, solar panels, wind mills, on the good ones the compressor operate in a 3phase alternating current via a frequency drive: 12V DC to AC 3 phase, they are Permanent motors, they are built with ceramic bearings, they carry minimum amount of oil, they also are made with a double rotor so when one is opening the second one is closing, all this making them vibration free and very quiet. The blower is also PM with ceramic bearings.
A conventional 6000 BTU will run on 5.2 amps including the pump and only in 115V 60Hz, a state of the art 7000BTU 12V DC unit will run on just 27.8 amp, but able to also run on 115V 3.1a, 1.5a on 230V 50/60. As soon as the cabin is comfortable the amperage is drastically reduce to half amperage, econo. Several videos on YouTube demonstrate those facts. So if you start doing maths 5.2 amp 115V for a conventional 6000 BTU = 53 to 55 amps on 12v, plus starting loads that can reduce the battery capacity, If you compare to a 7000 BTU only 27.8amps 12V DC at full speed, variable speed compressor, never a starting load. The success is based in practicality, if Tesla doesn’t design batteries to go with their engines, lights ultra efficient, electric air conditioner that not only cools the passengers but also the battery cells. Your boat is your domain but don’t Mikey mouse by not upgrading to new technology or not understanding the real advantages. Solar, windmills, batteries, alternators, chargers are like good sails that make you navigate comfortably without a large CO2 foot print. Good luck.

[170122]

If your generator is in a bad condition you can also upgrade your alternators, now alternators are made to charge large Lithium battery banks. I see around new boats equipped with one main cabin DC12 or 24V air and heat be on DC power directly, no inverter, a 250ah LiPo4 can run under the sun 8 hours non stop.

[At Peace]

Mabruteam, that's very encouraging.
What make and model units do you have?

[Rohan]

Mabruteam, that sounds wonderful, but can ordinary humans do this without an advanced engineering degree?

[170122]

In my opinion you buy a Tesla if you want to be all the way green, you add massive solar panels to your home to recharge your massive battery bank, then you upgrade your appliances with ultra efficient..
For example DC pool pumps consume 80% less than normal ones, same for air conditioners, you can buy marine ultra efficient reliable units that are at least 60% more efficient than Cruisair’s 10 years old models. After testing several DC units Termodinamica 16000, 9000 BTU did an excellent job but require 24v to run, one brand in you tube is 12v I am familiar with lithium Iron and AGM, LiPO4 will deliver twice more amp hour than AGM, Same size, 68lbs compared to 164 AGM.
I started by doing a 24 v DC to run my salon air, but my engines upgraded alternators were delivering 12v
Most of my systems were 12v so y sold the good Italian and bought 4 DC units ultra ultra efficient, my 12000 Cruisair was taking before with the easy start 7.7 amps, running on 12v/115 inverter 102 amp 12v compared to the MPS SC12DC 44 amp.
The 7000 DC is running on just 27.8 amps no picks to start, variable speed compressors and fans, working in harmony to deliver a constant temperature, cooling the boat is great by drying is even better, the coil is made in copper military specifications, antimicrobial and no electrobysis between metals, last longer, the compressor is a dual coil permanent magnet motor, ceramic bearings, and high static pressure blowers.
Control are touch color. Optional 115/230v 50/60 hx. Power supply.
If you go that way the generator is worthless, but if you don’t all will be a waste and eventually you will be buying a new generator, new masive inverter to be able to handle your AC demand , if you do the AC REFIT and eventually only a very small generator will be necessary, I run mine when I am running my Watermaker, 2 hours a day, my yanmar engines are not protected if I am not present to heard the alarm when an obstruction plugs the water intake, also carbon buildup inside the engine



QUOTE=cat-keys;3232627]Hello all,


we have a 2009 Leopard 40 owners version which has been upgraded with 5 x 125w solar and 2 x 100w ampaire wind generators 11 years ago. we have 3 x 210Ah Lifeline AGMs for house batteries 2.5 years old and new Xantrex 2000w inverter charger.



Offgrid and without genny, we generally run the AGM's down to about 60% overnight and then recharge to perhaps 90+% if the sun and wind cooperate. Using an electrical analysis of our fridges, lights etc we use about 285Ah per day on the hook and 325 underway with radar autopilot etc.



Last week we found out that the Northern Lights 6Kw M673L2 generator is shot - basically the windings seems to be shorted so would need an expensive rewinding job on a 3300 hour unit. cheaper to replace it with warranty



My wife and I were planning to cruise full time in 2021, but for now we use the cat each weekend and 3 weeks a year locally and in the Bahamas foir vacation. we have 2 x 16000 BTu cruise air ACs which we really only use 3 or 4 months a year and then only at night - but we would like to be able to use one unit when it gets hot using a soft start - other idea would be using a new 24v zero breeze 2300BTU rechargeable unit in our master berth only - but we have no experience with that new technology so dont really trust it.



So the question to the forum is what to do? replace the Genny with the same unit and 5 yr warranty or upgrade the solar/wind/battery and high amp alternators like what I saw from Nigel Calder with Integral to avoid the cloud covered no wind day killing the batteries?


I did some quick math and over 5 years both options when taking diesel use and maintenance costs into consideration came out to about $35k. I would love to go green and get rid of that noisy genny - also was told that the unit likely failed because its in the moist forward lazerette and we have nowhere eklse to put it = same problem again in 5 years.



here are the comps:
replace Genny - "drill baby drill" @ avg marina diesel $4/gal US & $5/gal offshore

replacement $19,100 estimated cost (incl misc parts & labor)
fuel & maintenance $15,600 5 years (1 yr local Miami weekend @ 20 weeks x 2 nights x 10hrs per day + 4 years offshore 7 nights per week 2 hours per day to recharge battery bank)
new AGMs in 2 years @$2300



vs the "green new deal"


1. upgrade solar 5 x 200W monocrystaline + 1000w addl flexible solar $3000 and new controllers

2. replace 80Amp alternators with Integral system mounted on 2 x yanmar 3ym30s with current 2300 hours $20,215 (without batteries) from their website estimate (seems high) - does anyone have real life experience to share?

3. replace 2 x 100w ampaire with 2 x 140w rutland wind turbines $2500
4. $2700 replace lifeline AGM total 630 Ah 4DA @ max 50% DOD 315 Ah to firefly carbon foam 4V 450Ah x 3 = 80% dod 1080 max (I believe overall cost of firefly incl cycle life to be better that LiFPO - my opinion only - (any opinions on carbon foam vs lithium)

5. soft start for AC units (2 x 16000Btu cruiseaire) would only run 1 at a time and only if unbarebly hot) $500

6. diesel to run yanmars for 1 hour per day avgh exclusive to recharge $7400 over 5 years incl routine engine maintenance 50% proportion vs underway usage



Also we would likely sell the boat at the end of this 5 year plan, perhaps in Panama, so would be interested in difference in resale value.


that's a lot = but because the 2 estimates come out to about the same, I am just wondering if maybe I am miscalculating some hidden cost on the "green new deal" which would be preferable to us if we truly want to live on the hook mostly.


Thanks in advance for your feedback - its my first post so I hope its not too long "winded"


Cat-Keys[/QUOTE]

[170122]

In my opinion you buy a Tesla if you want to be all the way green, you add massive solar panels to your home to recharge your massive battery bank, then you upgrade your appliances with ultra efficient..
For example DC pool pumps consume 80% less than normal ones, same for air conditioners, you can buy marine ultra efficient reliable units that are at least 60% more efficient than Cruisair’s 10 years old models. After testing several DC units Termodinamica 16000, 9000 BTU did an excellent job but require 24v to run, one brand in you tube is 12v I am familiar with lithium Iron and AGM, LiPO4 will deliver twice more amp hour than AGM, Same size, 68lbs compared to 164 AGM.
I started by doing a 24 v DC to run my salon air, but my engines upgraded alternators were delivering 12v
Most of my systems were 12v so y sold the good Italian and bought 4 DC units ultra ultra efficient, my 12000 Cruisair was taking before with the easy start 7.7 amps, running on 12v/115 inverter 102 amp 12v compared to the MPS SC12DC 44 amp.
The 7000 DC is running on just 27.8 amps no picks to start, variable speed compressors and fans, working in harmony to deliver a constant temperature, cooling the boat is great by drying is even better, the coil is made in copper military specifications, antimicrobial and no electrobysis between metals, last longer, the compressor is a dual coil permanent magnet motor, ceramic bearings, and high static pressure blowers.
Control are touch color. Optional 115/230v 50/60 hx. Power supply.
If you go that way the generator is worthless, but if you don’t all will be a waste and eventually you will be buying a new generator, new masive inverter to be able to handle your AC demand , if you do the AC REFIT and eventually only a very small generator will be necessary, I run mine when I am running my Watermaker, 2 hours a day, my yanmar engines are not protected if I am not present to heard the alarm when an obstruction plugs the water intake, also carbon buildup inside the engine



QUOTE=cat-keys;3232627]Hello all,


we have a 2009 Leopard 40 owners version which has been upgraded with 5 x 125w solar and 2 x 100w ampaire wind generators 11 years ago. we have 3 x 210Ah Lifeline AGMs for house batteries 2.5 years old and new Xantrex 2000w inverter charger.



Offgrid and without genny, we generally run the AGM's down to about 60% overnight and then recharge to perhaps 90+% if the sun and wind cooperate. Using an electrical analysis of our fridges, lights etc we use about 285Ah per day on the hook and 325 underway with radar autopilot etc.



Last week we found out that the Northern Lights 6Kw M673L2 generator is shot - basically the windings seems to be shorted so would need an expensive rewinding job on a 3300 hour unit. cheaper to replace it with warranty



My wife and I were planning to cruise full time in 2021, but for now we use the cat each weekend and 3 weeks a year locally and in the Bahamas foir vacation. we have 2 x 16000 BTu cruise air ACs which we really only use 3 or 4 months a year and then only at night - but we would like to be able to use one unit when it gets hot using a soft start - other idea would be using a new 24v zero breeze 2300BTU rechargeable unit in our master berth only - but we have no experience with that new technology so dont really trust it.



So the question to the forum is what to do? replace the Genny with the same unit and 5 yr warranty or upgrade the solar/wind/battery and high amp alternators like what I saw from Nigel Calder with Integral to avoid the cloud covered no wind day killing the batteries?


I did some quick math and over 5 years both options when taking diesel use and maintenance costs into consideration came out to about $35k. I would love to go green and get rid of that noisy genny - also was told that the unit likely failed because its in the moist forward lazerette and we have nowhere eklse to put it = same problem again in 5 years.



here are the comps:
replace Genny - "drill baby drill" @ avg marina diesel $4/gal US & $5/gal offshore

replacement $19,100 estimated cost (incl misc parts & labor)
fuel & maintenance $15,600 5 years (1 yr local Miami weekend @ 20 weeks x 2 nights x 10hrs per day + 4 years offshore 7 nights per week 2 hours per day to recharge battery bank)
new AGMs in 2 years @$2300



vs the "green new deal"


1. upgrade solar 5 x 200W monocrystaline + 1000w addl flexible solar $3000 and new controllers

2. replace 80Amp alternators with Integral system mounted on 2 x yanmar 3ym30s with current 2300 hours $20,215 (without batteries) from their website estimate (seems high) - does anyone have real life experience to share?

3. replace 2 x 100w ampaire with 2 x 140w rutland wind turbines $2500
4. $2700 replace lifeline AGM total 630 Ah 4DA @ max 50% DOD 315 Ah to firefly carbon foam 4V 450Ah x 3 = 80% dod 1080 max (I believe overall cost of firefly incl cycle life to be better that LiFPO - my opinion only - (any opinions on carbon foam vs lithium)

5. soft start for AC units (2 x 16000Btu cruiseaire) would only run 1 at a time and only if unbarebly hot) $500

6. diesel to run yanmars for 1 hour per day avgh exclusive to recharge $7400 over 5 years incl routine engine maintenance 50% proportion vs underway usage



Also we would likely sell the boat at the end of this 5 year plan, perhaps in Panama, so would be interested in difference in resale value.


that's a lot = but because the 2 estimates come out to about the same, I am just wondering if maybe I am miscalculating some hidden cost on the "green new deal" which would be preferable to us if we truly want to live on the hook mostly.


Thanks in advance for your feedback - its my first post so I hope its not too long "winded"


Cat-Keys[/QUOTE]

[Shaneesprit]

I wouldn’t put the service life of my propulsion engine at risk by charging batteries.
Failure sounds correct, gen windings need to be warm and dry. Replace the alternator and add a tiny 100w heater with a Thermostat to the generator enclosure. And or try and ventilate the gen area better, if you say it’s damp there is there enough cooling for the generator in its location.

[malbert73]

It’s really simple. AC or not is your answer.

If you want AC on demand and to be effective and you plan to be away from shore power, you really need a genset.

All of this discussion about running AC off of batteries is cool and you can do it for 1 cycle but recharging the batteries for that cycle will require diesel one way or another.

If no AC a genset stops being essential.

[170122]

The future is here, generator is not as important as before, preserving the generator is also very importat https://youtu.be/nFA3FNAHv_I

[170122]

I use my generator only few hours a day to charge my batteries.. 2 out of 24, maybe 3.. less pit changes, less maintenance.. https://youtu.be/nFA3FNAHv_I

[170122]

Generator is important, but ultra efficient air conditioning units are also important, new units consume at the end of the day a fraction of the power needed on normal units.. https://youtu.be/nFA3FNAHv_I

[tamicatana]

No gen, no ac, all solar. Five years and counting full time liveaboard, all at <30N