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Old 03-10-2017, 05:35   #1
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Realistic Catamaran Payload

How realistic is a 2000kg payload for a couple living aboard a performance, but not racing, cruising cat? I followed the thread of niecy on the purchase of the Schionning 1750. One of the boats I saw advertised on YW has a 2000kg payload. I added up the apparent big-ticket extras: (What did I miss?)
gen-set 200 kg
water (400 L) 400 kg
fuel (420 L) 400 kg
dinghy 55 kg
outboard 50 kg
air-con 60 kg
water maker 70 kg
1 anchor + chain 185 kg
life raft 30 kg
total 1445kg

It seems to me at rather cross purposes to add a gen-set and air-con to a performance cruiser, but it's what was on the equipment list. (I would like a washing machine, though.) I know there are a lot of other little things that will add up to a lot: food, kitchen sttuff, computers, clothes, personal things, line, etc. Luckily books can often be stored digitally. So, I wonder how feasible it is to cruise and liveaboard a boat with a 2000 kg payload.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:51   #2
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

If you are in a hurricane zone you need two more anchors with at least 75ft of chain each. You need enough tools to fix all that might break.

My tools and spares probably weigh 150kg

However, speed is not what is important...getting there without breaking things or injuring anyone are the real criteria of success!
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:02   #3
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

You won't need the AC in Portugal, so you can sell that and the genset. With a watermaker, you won't need to carry 400L of water. Our anchor and chain is quite a bit heavier than 185 kg but YMMV. You would be surprised at how much clothes, towels, sheets and blankets weigh. You don't list any toys or tools. These make up quite a bit of the weight we carry. Anyhow, I would just get the boat you want and be mindful of everything that goes aboard.
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Old 03-10-2017, 15:19   #4
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

People weigh something.
So does a few months worth of food and drink.
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Old 03-10-2017, 16:43   #5
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

I have worked on a Schionning. They take load pretty well. The hulls are quite bulky.

I think you want to add up crew weight, food, tools and materials, toys, dinghy, outboard, batteries, fuels, ...

You may find it a challenge to stay below 2t of added weight unless you are a proper minimalist in your everyday life.

We tend to carry over our life habits, and our garbage!

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Old 03-10-2017, 19:52   #6
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

Depends on what you mean by realistic, realistic to whom? I am sure you could get by with 2 T, but would you, or more importantly your partner, enjoy it. As a lighthearted example ,in our case, if we did not have a washing machine and 100LPH water-maker to feed it and had to cart clothes to a Laundromat (if there is one) in each port I would be sailing on may own. When our first washer disintegrated in the Bahamas, i couldn't get a replacement fast enough!

As an aside, we came across a Fusion 40 (is that a Schionning design?) that was absolutely loaded for long term cruising, it had more gear than our L450, the trouble was it was so loaded the sugar scoops were under water, the owner complained that the boat felt sluggish, and it was, cos we passed him going 2 knots faster (per AIS) on 15 mile 2 sail reach.
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Old 03-10-2017, 20:52   #7
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

Answer: of course you can (get by with 2 tonnes). One has to be very pragmatic about it.

Not mentioned in this thread before: do you have (a need for) extra batteries?, outboard fuel, cooking and cleaning gear, other safety gear (like fire extinguishers), solarpanels, boarding ladder, fenders, docking lines, ?extra sails, communications, drinks for the 5PM rituals, BBQ, gas bottle(s), spare engine oil.

Look at the manufacturer’s brochure and see what is on board when new, then look at your boat and see what see what is on board now: maybe nearly a hundred of items each weighing maybe only a kg or so, but it certainly adds up.

When everything is filled up, and I add everything, I carry more than double your 2 tonnes…. but am on a monohull, with large tankage, and I am likely a bit over the top with my gear. But hey, when we meet in a distant bay in that remote country, and you need spanner or a bolt, come over, get it, and we have a drink after we fixed the problem
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Old 03-10-2017, 21:14   #8
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean Counter View Post
As an aside, we came across a Fusion 40 (is that a Schionning design?) that was absolutely loaded for long term cruising, it had more gear than our L450, the trouble was it was so loaded the sugar scoops were under water, the owner complained that the boat felt sluggish, and it was, cos we passed him going 2 knots faster (per AIS) on 15 mile 2 sail reach.
Not Schionning, Garry Lidgard design. A great design but unfortunately many are not constructed to intended design weight, further reducing payload.

I recently visited a Fusion 40 which had raised the sill of the saloon doorway in order to prevent water washing inside. Apparently it regularly gets pooped. Correctly built and loaded Fusions don't seem to suffer from this issue at all.

Despite this and many other issues associated with overloading there are those on this forum who strongly advocate that overloading boats, and cats in particular, is quite acceptible. Some of those, I would have thought knew better.

No wonder many designers and regulatory bodies affix loading capacity plaques, maximum displacement figures, etc. In many countries such information is mandatory. Some designers and manufacturers skirt the issue. Payload is a bit like bridgedeck clearance; if the manufacturer doesn't clearly state the quantum, there's probably an issue in this regard.

At least the OP is aware of this issue, is looking at vessels that state maximum payload and is wisely considering what cruising payload is appropriate to his needs.
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:13   #9
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

Years of backpacking taught me to consider each item.

A great way to start is to remove everything not bolted down and lay it on the pier. Everything not used in the last year is suspect.
Figure out why it was not used (Safety gear etc)
The multiple spare props, extra hammers, old sails, 10 extra PFDs, Old Halyards, redundant charts, old books, old foulies, old fans, that do not work - all that crap stays behind. Everything that goes back on board has a purpose, even if just to be used as a spare. Consider things like lithium powered electric drill instead of that old NiCD.

Weigh the detritus and put that on your "Saved Weight Tally"

Now take a look at the boat. Plywood doors? Plywood floor hatches? Rebuild em in foam. My seats went from 41 pounds of 3/4 ply and glass to 11 pounds of carbon core and glass. My buddy replaced his glass sliding doors with Plexi for a 60 pound weight saving. Similar projects shaved 10% of the weight on my 28' cat . Put it on your Saved Weight Tally.

Rum instead of beer, friends who are fit.

Go faster....
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:16   #10
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

I look at it this way, your boat has to fit with your lifestyle & sailing style, & vice versa, or you'll be unhappy. So if you guys love to sail, & enjoy changing sails, tuning/trimming things, & steering, then a lighter more responsive boat's likely in the cards. But if you want a luxury lifestyle with only the occasional day of fast sailing, then choose something more cruisy, sans daggerboards & other go fast features, that'll carry a load well.

Some people are more than happy to race around the world with little but a change of clothes, 1 spoon, & a cup that they use to; cook, eat, & drink out of. And there are cruisers who happily live almost this simply, by choice. For example a couple of guys sailed around the world on a Class 6.50... as in 6.5m long racing mono. The flipside being people who want all of the comforts of home, & that even as just a couple, easily manage to overload a 45' cat (somehow).

2t is more than doable, so long as you pay attention. And especially do as paxfish suggested. That tip about regular full gear offloads is one I recommend to everyone, & on some of the boats I race/raced on, we do that prior to every race or race series. It's shocking to see how much stuff you can have on a boat, even a small one. And it adds up. But a LOT of people balk at just the idea of such a thing, let alone trying it once or twice. Again, it's a lifestyle choice.

Oh, & to add to paxfish's tips. Can you live with curtains instead of doors? How about soft stowage like you find on racing boats instead of solid wood & glass cabinets everywhere? And honestly, "shelves" for your clothes made out of mesh, with bolt rope edges securing them to locker sides breath a lot better anyway, & keep things fresh & free of mildew. But they are a switch from land living.

One final thought is that it's quite common as folks get older, for them to downsize in terms of boats, & the attendent size boat gear. Along with how much "stuff" they keep onboard. Some of this is due to smaller or lighter boats being easier to handle, & the other part stems from better knowing (& accepting) the difference between luxury & necessity. Kind of like people who are young, & on thin budgets.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:42   #11
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxfish View Post
Years of backpacking taught me to consider each item.

A great way to start is to remove everything not bolted down and lay it on the pier. Everything not used in the last year is suspect.
Figure out why it was not used (Safety gear etc)
The multiple spare props, extra hammers, old sails, 10 extra PFDs, Old Halyards, redundant charts, old books, old foulies, old fans, that do not work - all that crap stays behind. Everything that goes back on board has a purpose, even if just to be used as a spare. Consider things like lithium powered electric drill instead of that old NiCD.

Weigh the detritus and put that on your "Saved Weight Tally"

Now take a look at the boat. Plywood doors? Plywood floor hatches? Rebuild em in foam. My seats went from 41 pounds of 3/4 ply and glass to 11 pounds of carbon core and glass. My buddy replaced his glass sliding doors with Plexi for a 60 pound weight saving. Similar projects shaved 10% of the weight on my 28' cat . Put it on your Saved Weight Tally.

Rum instead of beer, friends who are fit.

Go faster....
+++1!

Very well, and very funnily, said!

Toothbrushes with carbon handles ??? NOOOOOO !!! Who needs teeth anyways!

I am with you. What is not attached permanently and what was not used over last year or so can go!

I have the same background here - long mountain treks and I needed was in that rucksack.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:44   #12
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

Examples of lightweight dish and clothes storage. Inexpensive and not a lot of labor to build as well.Click image for larger version

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Old 09-10-2017, 09:00   #13
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

How much your catamaran can have on board depends on the construction of the catamaran, the bridge deck clearance, and how fast you want to sail.

If you are looking for fast passages, then you have to stay light.

If you are looking for a great lifestyle with the things on board that make living less tedious and more enjoyable, then speed will be less.

If your cat is heavily constructed, it will be able to carry the weight without a problem. If it is lightly constructed, then too much weight could result in structural failure.

Our Privilege 39 catamaran is heavily constructed with construction certificates saying that it weighs 13,000 pounds with nothing on it. It is very robust, which I like for offshore sailing.

The last time it was weighed by a crane in New Zealand, I was told that it weighed 20,000 pounds by the crane operator.

We are heavy, and I like it that way. We still get our 150 miles a day when sailing and motoring, and that works for me. Sailing faster than that requires more work than I am willing to do.

As long as I get my 150 miles a day offshore, then I will carry whatever I want on board.
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:08   #14
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

I believe your payload is determined more by design of the cat, and the lighter the design is constructed the more payload you will be able to carry.
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:15   #15
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Re: Realistic Catamaran Payload

I think it is easy enough if you want it to be.

Batteries, water, fuel in that order will be heaviest things on the boat. My cat only has a displacement (not max displacement) of around 3.6t but is designed to carry 300l of water. If I had a watermaker I could easily save 225kg. Though I've actually not seen any performance difference between having 300kg of water on board or just 50kg. Your boat is specced with a watermaker, so you could save 500kg by only carrying 100kg of water.

Unfortunately you can't do much about fuel as you always want your tanks full to prevent diesel bug, so you stuck with 225kg of diesel (300l)

Batteries, I have 200kg that is 6 Trojans a starter and a windlass battery. I'm going to be ditching the windlass battery so that will save another 20kg minus the cable weight. If you can reduce your bank or go for LiFePo4 batteries then you could save 100kg.

A washing machine weighs around 50kg and you'll probably want additional refrigeration at another 20kg.

A liferaft in the Med is arguable whether you need it. Especially considering your boat should float even when holed. Fire is probably the only time you'd want to leave it. 50kg saving.

You could save another 20kg by either going for an inflatable dinghy or one of the fancy lightweight ribs. Any yet another 20kg by reducing the outboard size.

It looks like the boat has decent solar arrays from images I've seen. If so then you could ditch the massive generator and use a small portable when necessary. Saving 150kg

You could save another 50kg by just opting for 50m of 8mm chain and then using rope rode, but that one is probably not worth it.

Finally, you could save another 50-60kg by leaving the wife at home, but then that weight might be reclaimed by beer. ��
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