Rapido 60 warranty delays

[breakinwind]

Hi guys,

I’m not sure if this is the best place to start a topic, but do you have any advice on how to expedite a warranty on a new boat? It’s been 8 months!

I made a video to sum up the basics. The biggest issue is there is no working rudder currently installed.
And how to insure the work being done is quality work. I was asked to not be around when they do the work. 🤔
https://youtu.be/MqrBsXZ9iA0

Thanks for your advice.

[leftbrainstuff]

Being asked to not be around during warranty repairs is a red flag. You own the boat, so you generally have ownership rights to what you own. You might also want to engage your own surveyor. That way you have a third party professional that helps you to document repairs and repair quality. This will be needed by your insurance and will help you protect the future value of your boat. At this stage you also need to engage a maritime lawyer to formally demand the manufacturer complete their work.

[Letterkenny]

Watched the video, interested in hearing what else is wrong.

[5BTM]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Being asked to not be around during warranty repairs is a red flag. You own the boat, so you generally have ownership rights to what you own. You might also want to engage your own surveyor. That way you have a third party professional that helps you to document repairs and repair quality. This will be needed by your insurance and will help you protect the future value of your boat. At this stage you also need to engage a maritime lawyer to formally demand the manufacturer complete their work.

The workers wear flip-flops at the boat yard and you feel there is a functioning legal system that will assist millionaires to get their way?

When I was working in that part of the world 45 years ago, bribery was the only way to expediate anything

[BenBowSirocco]

Wow. I personally would not go back to sea with that rudder case.

Sad for you.

NOTHING you showed in the video inspires any confidence in the steering system for me.

I am not sure why they are using stainless with the cassette case. That should be a per-manufactured off the shelf high pressure carbon plate. The shaft holes should be pressed titanium "rivets" or flange bushing's with replaceable insert bearings. Stainless steel is typically a poor choice for use with carbon unless isolated from the fibers, carbon produces mild electrical current and eats stainless alive. Ask any quality sailmaker what rings they use for the carbon sails and why.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/ca...thickness~1-3/


I just cannot see how you would ever hold a bond with so little material to encapsulate the stainless steel. My experience shows me that the problem lies in the flex. Whenever you bond metal and laminate, you really need the laminate to be properly engineered to flex at the same rates as the metal or else the flexural forces tear the bond apart. The laminate and the metal naturally flex at different rates or you might say at different pressures. Its not a great bond strength to begin with. I have seen some luck in just making the laminate much stronger than the metal: even if the bond fails the laminate still physically holds the metal like a fixture and it works anyway, but crevice corrosion is your next problem in that situation.

To my eyes, this is simply cheap and fast poor engineering by the Rapido staff.

The hose runs and such things are probably to be expected when getting things built by cheap labor and I wouldn't stress that stuff. You can have that fixed up in the states or EU at a later date.
The factory is likely inundated with orders and as a result running way behind so they are pumping out boats as fast as humanly possible.. Which I will say is a very typical curse of composite boat building. The results always being a loss of quality control.


If the warranty expires at the end of year 1. It seems prudent in my mind to spend the money to fly in a truly experienced and professional surveyor (who specialized in carbon composites) into the yard for a full write up that you can submit before the warranty expires.

I would choose someone from the racing world, who is used to seeing these types of laminate structures.

A few thousand dollars spent today might save you a lot more money down the road by getting the report in writing and submitted before the warranty period expires.
If nothing major is found and the rudder is your only real issue: what is your confidence in that boat worth?

[cram]

Seems like the right thing would them to do is extend the warranty according to the repair delays.... concur with the survey, did you have one done before buying the boat? Always a good practice, even with new boats.

[Kinkircating]

This is gut wrenching to see, I'm sorry you are going through this, but glad you are documenting this for others to see.

I think you have 2 routes to consider, (1) lawyer up and have this eat away you and cost countless dollars, cause you stress, impact your health, and take years of your life...or (2) let them fix it the best they can and then hire whatever broker that suckers people into buying these things to sell it for whatever you are able to get out of it and take it as a lesson learn and get on with having a great life.

[Knotical]

If they replace like for like (most warranty claim terms) you will have the same problem in the future, also, if you approved the system after looking at other Rapidos and/or the plans you don't have much recourse, they will not upgrade the system unless you lawyer up and be successful, or if they really care about their reputation and offer to do the right thing.

If I were you, I would get an outside surveyor and architect, ones who are experts in fast cats/tris, have them design a proper system, work with Rapido to install that system and pay the difference including consultation. This may void your warranty for the upgrade but don't let them void it on other systems.

If you lawyer up you will end up losing a lot of time and money, especially in a third world country where bribes work better than threats as one of the above posters suggested.

You may also use the exposure of your YT video to apply pressure, especially if you have proof of breakdown in other systems, reputation means money, reading the comments on your video it seems they already lost one prospective buyer.

Finally, it will be appreciate if you provide a follow up on this issue.

[qwerme]

Didn't SLV also have some substantial warranty issues and some hassle getting it fixed?

I am starting to think Rapido's are junk, expensive luxury junk

[ozolli]

Rapido has answered on Sailing Anarchy about this story.
I just copy-paste here as I find interesting to have both sides of a story :

SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT: CONVERTED DAY CHARTER R60 HULL #03.

In response to recent social media comments, we’d like to clarify a few points regarding Converted Day Charter boat, R60 Hull #03, which is a unique, heavily modified vessel. This boat was originally constructed as a day charter boat some years ago and is quite different to our other Rapido 60s. It was later sold to Mr. Brett Zachar at a clearance price ‘CHARTER BOAT AS IS’ with the very clear understanding that it would not match the level of finish found in a standard Rapido 60.

KEY POINTS ON CONVERTED DAY CHARTER BOAT:

• Distinct Design: Hull #03 was started some years ago as a day charter sailing or power boat with a very basic finish, no sleeping cabins and an open layout for day trips.
• Mr Brett Zachar states in his video “Remember the boat is brand new”: This is misleading.
• Major reconfiguration: Mr Brett Zachar decided that he wanted to reconfigure the boat as a cruising sailing boat. Major reconfiguration work was required. We were keen to clear the asset from our books and the customer wasn’t prepared to pay the price for a standard Rapido 60 so obviously, this converted day charter day boat was not going to have the same finish as a standard Rapido 60.
• Enhanced Features: Nevertheless, there were numerous upgrades, including new cabins, proper full-size galley and our new pre preg carbon mast (instead of an alloy rig). We even lowered the floor by 15.24 cm to provide more headspace for the 2.0-meter-tall Mr Brett Zachar.
• Clearance price: The clearance price was $1.0 million, sail away. A standard Rapido 60, base boat, sells for $1.79m.
• Insurance and Value: Even though it is a heavily modified boat, Mr Brett Zachar insured it for $1.8 million.

WARRANTY AND PROJECT CHALLENGES

There have been warranty issues associated with this converted day charter boat that was some years in the making. We do continue to honor our warranty commitments.

In May, we sent our Director of Operations to Phuket to assess the warranty claims. He prepared a list of valid warranty items that included replacing the Hydrive featured in the You Tube video. The Hydrive has already been replaced - well before the customer published his video using footage of the old Hydrive.

Meanwhile, as far as the warranty list goes, we still cannot get him to sign off. Mr Brett Zachar continually attempts to add claims that are not valid.

The warranty work (on Rapido’s list which the customer refuses to sign off on) would have been completed already if not for torrential monsoonal weather and a request for the latest carbon rudder case.

“NO RUDDER!” COMPLETELY UNTRUE.

With respect to the “No Rudder!” headline on Mr Brett Zachar’s You Tube video, the original rudder case was fine, doing 20 knots plus in the voyage from Vietnam to Phuket. However, after arrival, it did need work and a bearing was cracked. This was obviously valid warranty work and we scheduled to get it all done. Repairs could have been quickly completed and the boat returned to the water. However, Mr. Brett Zachar requested a quote for the latest carbon slide up / kick up case. Making a new carbon case is not an overnight job nor is fitting it.

Mr Brett Zachar accepted the quote. We then built the rudder case, shipped it to Phuket and commenced installation in September. Torrential monsoonal rains then stopped work. Still no payment for the rudder case has been received despite multiple requests.

COMPLETING WARRANTY AND RUDER CASE WORKS IN PHUKET

We are keen to complete the warranty work and the rudder case installation. But we have requested Mr Brett Zachar again to sign off on the warranty list so that we can finally stop this “whack a mole” cycle that we seem to be in.

In addition, we have asked him again make payment for the upgraded rudder case (which incidentally, has been heavily discounted from retail and further discounted a couple of weeks ago to help with hard stand charges even though the delays are caused by switching to the new case and monsoon weather. In the never ending “whack a mole cycle”, Mr Brett Zachar now wants a further discount on the rudder case).

CUSTOMER:
• REFUSES TO SIGN OFF ON WARRANTY LIST
• REFUSES TO PAY FOR RUDDER CASE
• NOW GOES TO SOCIAL MEDIA

Rather than confirming the warranty list and paying for his upgraded rudder case so that we can complete the works, the customer has turned to social media.

On social media he mentions we have asked him not to be on the boat when our workers are working (but of course he can and should inspect the work at appropriate intervals or have an expert do inspections). We made the request because it has been challenging for our staff and contractors who have reported difficulties working with the owner due to requests beyond the original scope, as well as behavior that does not align with our commitment to a respectful working environment (one painting contractor simply refuses to return to the boat due to Mr Brett Zachar’s behavior).

COMMITMENT TO EXCELLENCE

We take pride in the quality of our boats, as demonstrated by the Converted Day Charter boat’s outstanding performance on its maiden voyage, reaching speeds of over 20 knots.

We are keen to complete the works as soon as possible and will continue to try to get resolution.

[qwerme]

This is a nice lesson for Rapido, if you tack your name onto something, make sure it is up to the level you want your brand to have.

Originally Posted by ozolli

In response to recent social media comments, we’d like to clarify a few points regarding Converted Day Charter boat, R60 Hull #03, which is a unique, heavily modified vessel. This boat was originally constructed as a day charter boat some years ago and is quite different to our other Rapido 60s. It was later sold to Mr. Brett Zachar at a clearance price ‘CHARTER BOAT AS IS’ with the very clear understanding that it would not match the level of finish found in a standard Rapido 60.
[/I]

Also, if I was this Zachar dude, and the claims Rapido are making are true, I would be worried about getting sued.

[ausnp84]

Always two sides to a story, just like the over-dramatised SLV situation.

Glad to hear Rapido have released this statement and surprise, surprise, it turns out the owner wasn’t being entirely truthful in the YT video he posted…

[GordMay]

Thanks to ‘ozolli’, for providing Rapido’s response, to the OP’s public complaints.
As ‘ausnp84' notes, There’s always two [or more] sides, to a story.

FWIW:
The phrase “sold as is” legally indicates the boat is being sold, without any warranties, and in its current condition.
This transfers all ownership, and liability for the boat’s condition, over to the buyer. Once purchased, the seller has no obligation to repair issues that arise. The buyer takes full ownership of the boat’s current state – You own all existing flaws, defects, or problems.

Misrepresentation: However, if the seller knew [or should have known] about a major defect, but did not disclose it, prior to sale, the buyer may have grounds to take legal action, if you relied on the misrepresentation, in buying the boat. This applies to issues, that were known to the seller, but deliberately hidden from the buyer.
The boat, also, has to match the seller’s description, in their advertising, and any statements they made, at or before, the time of the sale.
For example, if a seller’s ad says the boat has radar, when in fact it doesn’t, the boat doesn’t match the description.
The seller is not, however, required to tell you that the boat had issues with the radar. But, they are also not allowed to lie or mislead you, about such problems. If the seller made any significant representations, to you, about the condition of the boat, that were false or misleading, then you could sue, based on breach of that representation, and breach of your sales contract.

Consult a legal professional, to determine if you have a case.

[CaptainRivet]

On this level boats you should never do one below your standard. Rapido just reacted too late but at least the right way.
And Rapido swalloed the frog and stand up for it in a reasonable way and wanna do the warranty work but the owner seems to be one no one wanna deal with.
If I would be Rapido I would give him a last deadline to sign off on the warranty list and warranty is only done when he paid his discounted bill for the rudder. The sign off on work done has to be an surveyor appoint by both parties, so a neutral 3rd person and till work is finished owner has to stay away from social media, failing to do so means immediate stop of work.
If not the discount for rudder is not valid anymore and rapdio refuses to do work as customer is not signing off. Thats the only way and well then it's a court case the owner is asking for...better then a never ending story.
Worst choice but some guys just have to learn it the hard way.

[SIGMACHI]

Originally Posted by qwerme

Didn't SLV also have some substantial warranty issues and some hassle getting it fixed?

I am starting to think Rapido's are junk, expensive luxury junk

'Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We watch SLV regularly....That "Stand Up Helm sucks!

It seems that they are opining about another vessel already.

Yes, their boat had major problems....I suppose they only got factory assistance because of their YouTube exposure!

IMHO