Question for Gemini owners

[CastOff]

Canibul,

Your posts in this thread were very well defined as to why the Gemini meets your cat criteria. Kudos to you for doing such thorough research for your next boat. I have looked at a few 3000/3200's and it's definitely worth seeing them yourself before you pay a surveyor the bucks to out your final boat IMO. Boats that show well from the outside that I have boarded have had some 'challenging' interior repairs necessary that one has to look closely to see. Definitely have walked across a few 'spongy' foredecks (compared to most monohull decks I've owned previously). I had decided to go and spend the money on a PDQ32 but someone else placed a depoist on her before I could fly down to check her out. Whomever it is will probably/hopefully join here and tell us how much they are enjoying 'Third Wish'...sigh.....my boat hunt continues

[ty.gregory]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Ok, lets say you have done a lot of searching, reading, talking, looking, and thinking.

And that you have pretty much decided that for what you want to do, and where you want to do it, one of the later Gemini's is the best choice you can make. For a variety of reasons, but this isn't about that.

Okay, if you had a max of $ 100K to spend on the boat, would you spend it all, or most of it, on one of the newer 105's which would be the 105Mc if you could find one, or a 105M if not....

OR,

would you spend $ 50K on a 3400 and use the other 50K to fix/replace/upgrade as far as you could get for 50K?

Gonna spend a hundred either way, but one way leaves you with a boat that you cannot spend any more money on for a while, while the other approach pretty much gets you an older boat but in really good shape.

I mean, is there REALLY $ 50,000 difference between the 3400 and the 105's?

Okay, this is an old thread-- but the OP's question is MY question too. I was wondering/hoping there might be a few others who have an opinion on this subject.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

Okay, this is an old thread-- but the OP's question is MY question too. I was wondering/hoping there might be a few others who have an opinion on this subject.

My opinion was to buy a newer boat and not fix much.

[ty.gregory]

Thank you, Therapy, any reasons for your opiinion would mean a great deal. Are you saying that in the long run, I would end up spending less money?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

Thank you, Therapy, any reasons for your opiinion would mean a great deal. Are you saying that in the long run, I would end up spending less money?

ROFL.... on boats you NEVER get to spend less money... just get to do some sailing sooner..

[webejammin]

We bought an 02 Gemini105MC last fall in San Diego for $98,000.00 and it had everything in great working order including only 460 hours on the disel, new 316 deck hardwear, newly finished wood floors, Our rigging is only 1 year old but it got discolored by jets leaving kerosine during taking off over Mission Bay where she had been moored. It even had the screecher sail except that's the one sail that needed replacing which I installed a new one yesterday $1600.00 that I ordered with the red UV cover sewn on instead of a UV sleeve that had been forgotten for 9 years. We love our cat and our 40ft moorage is only $151.31 a month with power,water on a new dock. We did add a Garmin 5208 chartplotter with radar and XM weather, The previous owner only had an old (no map) hand held GPS and paper charts for there 19 trips to Avilon on Catalina Island. I figure weather knowledge is most important for any costal cruser especially on the pacific north west coast. If we had bought the SeaWind 1000XL we were looking at it would not have been as comfortable thru the winter months with it's canvas doors on the salon. I sailed from San Diego to Catalina Islands 2 Harbors for a Latt,s & Att's crusers party in Oct using my new hand held GPS w/maps and had a ball. It did take a bit to get her north to the Columbia River but with the shallow draft she crused past sand bars on the Columbia river and all the port bars easly and only kicked up one rudder once. If we were going to cruse from Seattle to Hawaii and back yearly we would have bought something beamier but with great weather knowledge and not worring about the bridge deck noise I think we made a great choice. I used Mathew Dunning of the Multi-Hull Co. out of Seattle as our rep on the west coast since he had owned his own Gemini in the past and could show us lots of things about the boat and made things go smoothly. Keep looking on places like Yacht World weekly, the price on this boat went down $30,000.00 and we caught it at a great time. We did have cash which the previous owner loved that and we had some things from our previous boat like the dingy, Garmin 5208 chatrtplotter w/radar, other stuff that is spendy so the boat got updated without too much expence. Good luck shopping

[Mark Johnson]

In your price range... If you look at non production, custom, one offs... You can find cats, (or tris), that WERE designed for true "hard core", going to windward, blue water conditions, VS protected sailing only, like the Gemini. This being "protected sailing only", low cost, and fitting into marina slips, was what they were originally designed for. I was right there reading about their "niche" when they came out in Multihulls Magazine. (Which I read ALL of, since the early 70s) The fact that a lot of people are using them differently, doesn't make it smart.

A TRUE blue water catamaran needs to be wider, more strongly built, low center of gravity, modest accommodation for their length, have excellent visibility forward... and most important, they need a great deal of wing clearance! This is ignored at your own risk. It is not just a cosmetic "noise". In extreme conditions, like beating to windward off of a lee shore, in 35 or 40 knots of wind and nasty square waves... it is the sound of a boat being beaten to death! I KNOW first hand of them being seriously damaged from this, and after limping home, required extensive repairs. Afterward they NEVER considered it a blue water boat again, never sailed it like one, and did OK from then on. (Tony Smyth himself told them that it was NEVER intended to be sailed this way!) This applies to other multihulls as well. You can not go to windward with impunity, in extreme conditions, on a multihull with 8" of wing clearance! Physics... It's not just a good idea, "IT'S THE LAW"!

Look around some more. If you sift through the hundreds of bad apples, and know the characteristics / designs to look for, you can find a better / SAFER multihull, for the same or lower price. The best "deals" out there BTW, are in Tris, like Brown / Marples, Crosses, Kantola, etc.

For a bit more money, there are some wonderful older "custom" cats out there too, that were simply built to a better design in the first place. They weren't trying to be an apartment, and kept windward ability, and seaworthiness, as higher priorities.

Just a thought... If you're open to the idea. Mark

[webejammin]

Most folks who are disippointed with the Gemini 105MC's with the screecher sail, not the older models. There on a rigid schedule because there still working for someone else and can't waite out a week long storm and big steep waves in a snug harbor We can waite out weather practicing music and playing music for our moorage just crusing no rigid schedule.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

Thank you, Therapy, any reasons for your opiinion would mean a great deal. Are you saying that in the long run, I would end up spending less money?

That is hard to say.

Sooner or later everything needs fixing or replacing.

When it is new it may be a while. When it is old and just replaced with new it may be a while.

The problem with boats is that it truly is "always something".

If there is nothing structurally wrong with the boat and it comes at the right price then replacing a bunch of bits may save money in the long run.

Note - many boat owners try to do most of the work themselves because a 500.00 item may cost 500.00 just to install. It can take that long or be that much of a PIA. ( I am talking about being done correctly)

There are any number of posts from prospective buyers here asking the same sort of questions. There are a lot of answers. In the end you will have to sort it all out for yourself.

PLUG - You can buy my boat. It is ready to go. BUT - We are going to put our clothes and food aboard and be gone for most of April and a good part of May.

We are ready to go.

PS Old boatman61 is right too. We all are.