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Old 01-01-2025, 11:55   #1
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Proa, Fast Downwind Surfing, NO Weather Helm!

The Vid Below Shows just that, this boat is very balanced on all points of sail.
Proas hate running, here cruising around 7 or 8 knots, very smooth.

https://youtu.be/djCTi25_AgA?si=Rzs1AQxU1EBicJ6G
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Old 01-01-2025, 14:32   #2
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Re: Proa, Fast Downwind Surfing, NO Weather Helm!

I've always wanted to sail a proa with a crab claw ever since reading Marchaj's praises of it in "Sail Performance!" (pages 159 to 175)
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Old 01-01-2025, 14:42   #3
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Re: Proa, Fast Downwind Surfing, NO Weather Helm!



These guys have been setting speed records for thousands of years, before carbon fiber and synthetic materials.

The only true double-enders!
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Old 02-01-2025, 01:00   #4
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Re: Proa, Fast Downwind Surfing, NO Weather Helm!

It's all true, very powerful sail! Best part about it is, your sheeting angle can be way off, yet they keep driving like crazy....
Second best thing is, I have made many sails in a few hours for almost free... Very simple and cheap to make yourself, yet very effective, I had Proas sailing very close to windward, 45-50 degrees, was normal performance for any sail, no matter how bad it looked.

BUT.... You can't reef them! As a cruiser that's frightening, on a Proa more so than on a Catamaran. On a Cat the mast is at mid ship, making sail changing easy, since it's better to change sails than attempt to reef. On Proas changing sails is very hard almost impossible, due to mast position and the general layout of the boat.... It's a long story, to make it short on Cats, mast is at mid ship. Spare sails are kept on deck near the mast. The hulls are on the sides, so nothing gets in the way...

On a Proa the mast is all the way to leeward, over the Vaka. Sails would be kept to windward on deck towards the ama. The problem is Crab Claws have long spars, when dowsing the sail, it all comes down on the Vaka, now somehow these long spars needs to get pushed, between the mast and standing rigging over to the windward side of the boat, now it can get lashed to deck, a smaller sail in the same way, needs to get dragged over, past the mast onto the big hull, finally get rigged and raised.....

Spare sails are too much weight to carry around, and hard work.

Crab Claws could be depowered by pulling the boom up with the brailing lines, now you are sailing along with a crunched up piece of cloth, that cant sail better than a beam reach, if you are trying to get off a lee shore, good luck to you!

Great rigs! as long as used correctly by experienced sailors...

On my first 2 Proas I was scared to sail away into the unknown... Finally I started cruising and enjoying sailing on my third Proa once it got Junk Rigged. It's a hybrid Junk designed for shunting, The only true Shunting Junk in the world, since the sail is moved forward towards the bow on every shunt.

VIDEO below saved Balkan Shipyards. The first 'Lateen rigged SHunting juNK' (the 'LaSHuNK') in action during sea trials... Best Micro Cruiser in the world! This boat has gone very far and became the blue print of our Proas.

Keep Shunting, Balkan Shipyards

https://youtu.be/F7TjCkXuoLg?si=XpzbOx6nIRrH9G7v
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Old 02-01-2025, 14:44   #5
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Re: Proa, Fast Downwind Surfing, NO Weather Helm!

Wow, fascinating! A unique design. I look forward to seeing more videos of trials and I look forward to seeing how you rig the tack rail.
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Old 02-01-2025, 17:46   #6
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Re: Proa, Fast Downwind Surfing, NO Weather Helm!

One will run very well if you give it a sail built for running.


A common Bermuda rig is a S sail for running. Unless you have that funky rotating mast thing that pushes the jib to windward (forgot the name, but some Freedoms had that, you know)


And even then, the narrow part of the thing is where there is wind, and the main area is where there is no wind .... bummer !


So I am saying any boat will run, also a proa, if the sail is say a reverso Bermuda (triangle - wide side facing UP.


But a running proa needs a deep (or rather tall) bow (-s). Because it may go ass over head if pushed too deep into water.


I have seen one or two ocean going proas and I liked those. Pretty and looked safe. And sailed fast.


What not to like.


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Old 03-01-2025, 00:28   #7
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Re: Proa, Fast Downwind Surfing, NO Weather Helm!

Barnakiel, Proas are very bad down wind boats! They like reaching and close reaching.

Bermudas have nothing to do with it. Only Proas have a small hull to one side, a big hull to the other and a rig that can't turn and come between the hulls, that's why Proas Shunt. The sail of a traditional Proa is a low aspect Crab Claw, it is rigged to a mast on the Vaka (big hull) and is always flying above the sea.

On a Run, imagine, to the far left is the sail. In the middle is the Vaka, and to the far right is the Ama (small hull). this boat will never sail straight, it will develop severe weather helm, as the vessel tries hard to turn to the right. This is simple physics, with sail driving the Vaka forward from the far left. On the far right the Ama generates drag, as it moves through the water. these craft hate running and are hard to steer down wind. I had times running and surfing with my 3rd Proa "Make O'Break", the boat was pulling so hard to turn towards the ama, that I thought I was going to break the steering oar, as I attempt to hold a straight course and not hit the rocks to the right...

On my Proas I can rotate the Junk Rig between the hulls, then my boats will run rudderless. On traditional Proas this isn't possible, a bermuda rigged proa could probably fly a spinnaker, or any other sail between the hulls, yet I have no experience with Bermudas on Proas.

Don C L, the Video below takes us back to 2019, when I launched "Make O'Break" my 3rd Proa. this boat saved Balkan Shipyards! 7 years of fear with Crab Claws came to an end... You will see the LaSHuNK ia action, shunting, tack rails, rigging even backwinding and how easy this rig gets out of it...

Keep Shunting,
Balkan Shipyards

https://youtu.be/Gao_VIss-nY?si=qBSFHq95HpE_FDYw
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