Pricing makes no sense sometimes

[fillintheblank]

Okay, I have been looking and reading a lot. I like the leopard 38, the FP tabago, and the FP mahe as well as a few others. The leopard is in the lead, the tabago is in second due to price with the mahe in third. What makes no sense is the leopards are newer and are cheaper than the mahe, and bigger. The leopards seem to have the best reputation for build quality, but maybe slower.

Why am I seeing a 100k price difference from the tabago to the mahe which I cant account all of to the age and size when the leopard is bigger and maybe newer.

I cant say I/we would ever go full time cruising ( i would love to, her not so much ) so size nor being bigger for long term cruising or around the world comfort applies to my needs.

Do FP's just have that much better reputations that a mahe justifies the price over a newer bigger leopard. And if they did why is the tabago so "cheap".

Yes I know age of equipment, how its out fitted etc make a huge difference, but the tabago is out fitted similar but is much cheaper.

[EngineerRetired]

With no idea of age, interior design, number of cabins and heads, no real way to comment.

[fillintheblank]

For the most part all three are galley up, 3 cabin designs. Links below to one of each, but not the ones I have used for prices. The leopard is a 2 head boat

https://www.edwardsyachtsales.com/bo...obago-35/2257/
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...he-36-3848615/
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...rd-38-3852864/

[Morndenkainen]

Well, for starters, you're comparing boats that are 6-14 years apart...
The 2007 FP is $199k.
The 1993 FP is $120k.
The 1999 Leopard is $172k.

[fillintheblank]

Those one where not the ones I was using for pricing, they where just quick find for boat examples. I am not going to try to find them again.

the tabago I was looking at was 99k, had a water maker
the mahe was 220 had ac
the leopard was 190 and 2 years newer than the mahe. the leopard had ac and a water maker

all where US boats.

I am guessing some of it was possible charter, the mahe and leopard had similar hours on the motors. And I did not actually see the boats, so there maybe some issues I dont know about. But it does seem the leopards are cheaper than most other boats of the same age and size.

I would assume some of it is the reputation that FP being more exclusive boats than the leopards.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by fillintheblank

I would assume some of it is the reputation that FP being more exclusive boats than the leopards.

ROFL, Exclusive?

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by fillintheblank

Those one where not the ones I was using for pricing, they where just quick find for boat examples. I am not going to try to find them again.

the tabago I was looking at was 99k, had a water maker
the mahe was 220 had ac
the leopard was 190 and 2 years newer than the mahe. the leopard had ac and a water maker

all where US boats.

I am guessing some of it was possible charter, the mahe and leopard had similar hours on the motors. And I did not actually see the boats, so there maybe some issues I dont know about. But it does seem the leopards are cheaper than most other boats of the same age and size.

I would assume some of it is the reputation that FP being more exclusive boats than the leopards.

Brother,

You need to go fill in some of your own blanks first. Whatever any helpful soul here may offer you need to do some serious study. Study all Mahes on the market at the same year, same for the rest. Learn what a watermaker or AC costs to install. Make some sense of it and then go to an internet forum and ask some questions.

[redneckrob]

I may be wrong, but based on my own experience I'm guessing you haven't actually gone to look at any of these boats in person?

I was quite shocked at the variability in the condition on used boats, even after reading post after post here about the variability of the condition on used boats. It's very possible that the Mahe is in mint condition and you could eat off the engine room bilges, while the Leopard engines are covered in rust, a smell of sewage and foot has infused the entire interior of the boat, you can rip the stitching in the sails with your fingernail because of the UV damage, and the windows are so crazed you can't see out of them, also from UV damage. Yes, I've seen all those things in the same otherwise "great deal" listing once I actually flew 1000 miles to look at the boat in person. So go look at a dozen boats, at which point I think you'll be able to answer your own question.

Specific to your question, I own a Mahe 36 and really like the boat but wouldn't consider it better than a Leopard of similar age and condition. However, most Leopards were charter boats and most Mahes were not, so first off you need to eliminate that difference. Additionally, almost all Mahes in the U.S. were subject to an engine recall and as a result almost all have two brand new engines some still under warranty. The Leopard of the same age not only won't have new engines, but if they were charter boats they probably have engines with several thousand hours on them. So two broad points that impact nearly the entire fleets to add to the specific condition of a given set of boats.

[fillintheblank]

First I understand costs for ac and water makers, I was very surprised what water makers actually cost. I also understand the conditions of the boats means a whole lot, heck even age of sails, rigging etc adds up.

I did not know about the mahe engine recall, I do know about the FP osmosis problems.

I found one tabago with new engines, and I am sure most of them are high hours due to over all age.

The exclusive remark is based from what I see a lot of people hold them in higher requards. People here may not, esp compared to a gunboat or similar.

[EngineerRetired]

Having been "looking" for several months (I'll find that great deal at some point) I can tell you EVERY thing counts. Age of electronics, engines, rigging, sails, bedding, smell (especially smell) manual or electric heads, condition of wood, window caulking, on and on and on the list goes.


I have seen two boats, (Lagoon) identical make and years that were separated by over a $100K in price. When I seen them, it was obvious why.

[Sand crab]

The Volvo engine recall is not specific to Mahes but covers any engine made by them for use in the US. The engines did not meet the EPA specs. Many different manufacturers boats were involved. Here's a link.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ll-188024.html

[zstine]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

I can tell you EVERY thing counts. ... smell (especially smell) .

HAHA, yeah. When we were looking we found an amazing deal that looked perfect in pictures! The boat was $20k less than sister ships that sold in the $50k range. So for ~$30k we could actually afford it!


The second the companion way opened we knew. The strong stink of diesel fuel wafted out and we walked away in minutes. The broker explained the old fuel tank failed and the boat sat with diesel for weeks or months. While the tank was replaced and diesel cleaned up from the bilge, all the surfaces on the boat adsorbed the smell... even the wood I'm sure

[Rapanui]

There are many reasons for price variations between models. One reasons is the scarcity of reasonably well performing cats below 38 ft and particularly around the 35 feet mark. The Tobago, despite its age, holds it's price and is sought after because it is a nice boat and sails fairly well. The Mahe is a modern version and again sought after for the same reason. Once you get to 38-40 ft there is a lot more competition with numerous models from FP, Lagoon and Leopard. In all cases, the later models are significantly heavier with a corresponding reducing sail area/ displacement ratio, and this is one reason why the older FP models like the Maldives and Tobago are sought after. Also, some people want the smaller size to fit their slip, lift out or reduce costs.

[MIRELOS]

Older Fps were strongly built, the new ones are more charter fodder, thats why the older ones keep their value

[captnknopf]

A big advantage of the Leopard that was not mentioned is it is the only one with inboard diesels, not sail drive. Also it has a real shower room in addition to the two heads.