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Old 15-01-2017, 12:42   #1
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Poor construction

From my research for a quality constructed catamaran, I find it hard to find some brutal/honest reviews of the worst quality issues with production cats.

Found a few on other forums, some negative comments on St. Francis, Voyage,
and Lagoon, but they are scarce...

Would like to get some input on Nautitech vs. the others.

Trying to decide on a new vs. used 50 ft. cat.



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Old 15-01-2017, 13:02   #2
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Re: Poor construction

You won't find honest review about any boat on the press; they live on advertising income that they get from these boat munafacturers.
And there simply isn't any perfect boat. If you are specifically interested with Nautitech, try to contact with the owners, there are few in CF. Nauthitech used to make 10-15 boats a year and there aren't as much as Lagoon or FP's around.
Or if you want to know more about new and used 50 ft cats in general, you can get many feedback from owners or the ones who sailed these boats.


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Old 15-01-2017, 13:05   #3
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Re: Poor construction

Thanks Yeloya,
I know that I won't get an honest objective review from a trade publication.

Whether it be guns, cars, especially boats.

Like to get some input from marine surveyors...

I'm still all over the map on this acquisition.


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Old 15-01-2017, 17:55   #4
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Re: Poor construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatservo View Post
From my research for a quality constructed catamaran, I find it hard to find some brutal/honest reviews of the worst quality issues with production cats.

Found a few on other forums, some negative comments on St. Francis, Voyage,
and Lagoon, but they are scarce...

Would like to get some input on Nautitech vs. the others.

Trying to decide on a new vs. used 50 ft. cat.
meatservo
On Nautitech you would have before Bavaria and after Bavaria starts to built them.

I was expecting to hear a lot of negative comments after they started to be built by Bavaria but till now I had not heard anything bad and I believe a lot of Nautitech 40 were sold already built by Bavaria.
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Old 15-01-2017, 18:20   #5
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Re: Poor construction

Not sure who has their name on this one ... Osmosis Solutions
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Old 15-01-2017, 18:26   #6
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Re: Poor construction

One place to look is on the Lagoon forum here on CF. Look at the kinds of repairs people are making, the issues they're solving... And look at similar forums for all the ones you'd consider. Keep records in a format where it is easy to compare makes.

One example, the fly bridge Lagoons have vague, heavy steering, it has to get from the fly bridge down to the rudders, and there are friction losses at each change of direction. Also, the steering is very heavy. So if you have old shoulder injuries, it is a problem you'd want to consider, as well as it being harder for the autopilot, more wear on it.

Ann
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Old 15-01-2017, 18:50   #7
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Re: Poor construction

Manufacturers are very successful at keeping major complaints off the Internet and other sources. Owners are generally a poor source of negative information because they know this information can reduce the values or selling ability of their boats. It's also natural to reinforce almost any decisions you made when you made the purchase so you don't felel like a fool. It's damn tough to get quality information on boats. A real good surveyor who has lots of experience with a boat type can often give you the straight goods. Anne's suggestion is a good one. Owners groups can sometimes be good sources but some of them are closer to glee clubs for their boats. Good luck in your homework.
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Old 15-01-2017, 18:58   #8
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Re: Poor construction

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Not sure who has their name on this one ... Osmosis Solutions
The boat had 2 years when it was repaired and we don't know when that was, but it was probably made before Bavaria begun to built them. They now don't have that boat on the line anymore. I don't know when it was discontinued but it should not hard to find out.

They have the 40 and the 46 that are already from the Bavaria ownership and two bigger cats from the past.
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Old 15-01-2017, 19:01   #9
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Re: Poor construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
You should check that out. The boat has 2 years but it was started probably before Bavaria started to built them. They now don't have that boat on the line anymore. I don't know when it was discontinued but shout not hard to find out.

They have the 40 and the 46 that they are already from the Bavaria ownership and two bigger cats from the past.
2009 build/ 2011 repair according to the site...
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Old 15-01-2017, 19:03   #10
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Poor construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Owners are generally a poor source of negative information because they know this information can reduce the values or selling ability of their boats.

Agree and I would add that legit negative information is also a reason sometimes Practical Sailors' bluntly honest reviews get that publication an *undeserved* bad rep.

Voyage makes a solid cat and have a thriving charter business which I respect in that they themselves operate it. Their low Maint / little teak style isn't for everyone but worth a look second hand.
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Old 15-01-2017, 19:05   #11
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Re: Poor construction

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
2009 build/ 2011 repair according to the site...
Not Bavaria made then.
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Old 15-01-2017, 22:22   #12
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Re: Poor construction

"Would like to get some input on Nautitech vs. the others."

This statement led me to wonder how many Owners where out there to get a comment from. The number of vessels of any particular brand manufactured are hard to ascertain. Every now and then you will see the 100 th of a particular model may have just been launched or such and such produced 443 before ceasing production. Actual production figures do not seem to be readily available.

So using the search function of this web site you can get numbers of people who in their profile admit to owning past or present a particular brand. This is not the be all and end all to numbers but it is interesting all the same.

It may also explain why the defense of criticism against a particular brand or style attracts a larger response, simply because there are more owners available to respond.

Total registered users 152,530

Beneteau mono's just for comparison 1,237
Lagoon 529
Leopard 225
Fountain Pajot 194
Seawind 122
Gemini 115
Corsair 72
Catana 59
Schionning 26
Outremer 25
St Francis 18
Nautitech 8

If I missed your brand you can do the search easily yourself

So the percentage of people here to comment on the Nutitech from direct ownership experience is going to be way way less than most of the other brands. The same would also go for finding a marine surveyor who has seen a large enough sample to make an educated comment on the brand in particular.
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Old 16-01-2017, 01:36   #13
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Re: Poor construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I was expecting to hear a lot of negative comments after they started to be built by Bavaria but till now I had not heard anything bad and I believe a lot of Nautitech 40 were sold already built by Bavaria.
This is not correct.. The 40 is the last one developed and fully manufactured in France before the deal with Bavaria was concluded. I've seen their facilities and had some conversation with the previous owner, Mr Voisard. The new 46 is the first one that Bavaria management was involved.
As far as I know, the naval architect Marc Lombard who has designed Nautitech is still in the process or at least was on the last 46.
The plan is to keep the factory in France and expand it but some parts (probably the furnitures) will be made in Germany and sent to France.
How this could impact Nautitech is difficult to say. My guess:

-Bavaria which is one of the larger manufacturers of boat couldn't afford to stay out of cat market which is growing faster than monohull market,
-they will be able to better use their large dealership network all around the globe. This was one of the biggest issue of Nautitech.
-Lastly, in terms of capacity of manufacturing Nautitech was well behind the critical mass and they didn't have enough financial power to extend it. Bavaria can help sorting out this issue and all this can help to pull down the costs and be more competitive in the market place.

The concerns are;

-Bavaria doesn't have a very good reputation in making good quality mono's. Nauthitec's were relatively expensive but a good boat in overall, both in terms of performance and quality.
-Knowing the french and german mentality, in a company where a change of paradigm is inevitable, this could be an issue..

The first test will be the sale numbers of new 46 against the FP new 47 which was launched almost at the same time. FP 47 is sold out until June 2018 and Bavaria also is doing fine althought I don't have numbers. Pricewise Bavaria is some 10% cheaper than FP. Previously Nautitech's were priced app. 5-10% above the similar size of FP cats. If they keep on doing that by maintaining the quality and performance of the boat, they win. If they cut the price by delivering the cats at Bavaria standards, they lose..

Cheers

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Old 16-01-2017, 02:19   #14
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Re: Poor construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Not Bavaria made then.
Don't even think it is a Nautitech but whatever it is I would think long and hard before buying one.
Maybe an FP?
They had an FP come through when I was there but it was older...
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Old 16-01-2017, 05:16   #15
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Re: Poor construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
This is not correct.. The 40 is the last one developed and fully manufactured in France before the deal with Bavaria was concluded. I've seen their facilities and had some conversation with the previous owner, Mr Voisard. The new 46 is the first one that Bavaria management was involved.
As far as I know, the naval architect Marc Lombard who has designed Nautitech is still in the process or at least was on the last 46.
The plan is to keep the factory in France and expand it but some parts (probably the furnitures) will be made in Germany and sent to France.
How this could impact Nautitech is difficult to say. My guess:

-Bavaria which is one of the larger manufacturers of boat couldn't afford to stay out of cat market which is growing faster than monohull market,
-they will be able to better use their large dealership network all around the globe. This was one of the biggest issue of Nautitech.
-Lastly, in terms of capacity of manufacturing Nautitech was well behind the critical mass and they didn't have enough financial power to extend it. Bavaria can help sorting out this issue and all this can help to pull down the costs and be more competitive in the market place.

The concerns are;

-Bavaria doesn't have a very good reputation in making good quality mono's. Nauthitec's were relatively expensive but a good boat in overall, both in terms of performance and quality.
-Knowing the french and german mentality, in a company where a change of paradigm is inevitable, this could be an issue..

The first test will be the sale numbers of new 46 against the FP new 47 which was launched almost at the same time. FP 47 is sold out until June 2018 and Bavaria also is doing fine althought I don't have numbers. Pricewise Bavaria is some 10% cheaper than FP. Previously Nautitech's were priced app. 5-10% above the similar size of FP cats. If they keep on doing that by maintaining the quality and performance of the boat, they win. If they cut the price by delivering the cats at Bavaria standards, they lose..

Cheers

Yeloya
It's always very interesting when people like yourself who are extremely involved in the industry have strong opinions that are counter to some forum members. Polux has always suggested that Bavaria was one of the "better" builders in the high production market. This would suggest that if the Bavaria name was behind this Cat it would be an advantage but you are of the opposite opinion. Do you mind sharing why you hold this opinion?
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