Plan is to circumnavigate with the family.

[Muz911]

Hello!

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have read many posts that look very similar to this. I will try and provide as much information as possible so that you find people, who have much more experience than I do, can help guide our decision-making.

I have some sailing experience mostly racing in Hawaii on Oahu but that was many many years ago...

My wife grew up on boats, but most of it on the Ohio and Mississippi River on motoring boats.

We are both undergoing sailing lessons and getting certifications/chartering as time allows while we save money.

That being said, we are both neophytes to Bluewater sailing, and all advice is welcome and appreciated.

Our plan is to purchase in 18 to 24 months and begin cruising in Bahamas in Mexico for several months before branching out. (Possibly the ARC).

We plan to live aboard and travel around as much as possible without spending much time at the marina and have recently put our house on the market.

Plan currently is to purchase a used catamaran ?+/- 45 ft and retrofit depending on what is needed.

Things I would love your input on would include the following:

Make and model to be watching out for. We have spent hours and hours researching different models of catamarans.
Basically, it would need something large enough to house our family. Currently the girls have a room, the boys have a room, and the parents have a room. Given the size of the births, we would likely need a four room or a three room with a fold out somewhere.

Many people have advised to stay away from Lagoons, Leopards, and FPs because they are so slow and not really built for circumnavigation. (I am interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this since it is our first step in narrowing down the right boat.). Some of the comments I have seen posted, raise concerns about the balsa core construction in some of the more popular brands. Also, concerns for lamination problems in some of the older boats.

Basically, we are looking for something that can provide space for people and provisions while carrying us along at a reasonable pace.



We would prefer some of the comforts of home, water maker, solar, generator, refrigerator, probably 2 deep freezers, Good storage for provisioning. The kids would love some space for kiteboards and scuba gear.

Currently we would prefer a 3 to 10-year-old boat and are looking at Knysna, Seawind, St. Francis, and Balance (although this is a rudimentary list that will likely change.)

We have joined several of the homeschooling websites and groups and we are able to homeschool the children which turns out is a byproduct of COVID-19....

I also wanted to say thank you to all the people who post on here. I have been reading the last couple of years and has really enjoyed the dialogue and the amount of help people are willing to offer.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

(I apologize for the grammatical errors in advance. I am typing this out in my phone).

Muz911

[ol1970]

How many charters have you done and where have they been? More practice and time on the hook will help you in your decision making process. Also maybe start off with saying you are going to bop around the Bahamas/Caribbean for a year or two, don’t put the pressure on yourself to circumnavigate.

It’s naive to think that you should avoid the big three manufacturers. I’d be willing to bet that more of those circumnavigate each year than the other brands you mention combined. People successfully circumnavigate on 26’ 40 year old monohulls, a Lagoon 450 would most certainly be my choice for the task between those two options. Get the best boat you can afford that is best equipped for the job. Get some time at the helm of a bunch of different boats, that’s a big part of the fun.

[AiniA]

I will leave it to the multihull people to talk about which ones might be best. My limited experience with the World ARC is that you spend too much time going and not enough time enjoying the places you go to. Their itinerary is for 15 months. We crossed paths with them in Mauritius. An X50 came in and a few days later a largish cat, but the other dozen or so boats were no-shows when we left, as an out-of-season Cat 3 cyclone was in the general neighbourhood. I just would not like the idea of following someone else's schedule, especially a fast one.

To me a minimum of three years makes most sense. In our case we took four years and probably should have gone into SE Asia and added a year. Note that planning is not open-ended, you need to be in (or not in) certain parts of the world in certain seasons/months. Get a copy Cornell's book, 'World Cruising Routes' which goes through this.

[Tupaia]

Totally agree with AiniA. We took 14 years and circumnavigated by accident and still sailing. Travelling in a group isolates you from the local communities and diminishes the experience, the reason for visiting far off destinations only accessible by boat in the first place. As AiniA says take time to smell the daisies. Unless a circumnavigation is just a life list tick avoid rallies.

[parachute]

Everything on a yacht, except electrical, is made for weekend and holiday sailors so long-distance sailing everything except electrical will break more than once, as I found. Carry two spares for everything and exploded diagrams. When you take something apart lay it a line so you know how to put it together. I often found I had to service or repair things once a week. The longest I went without repairing things was a month in the Venezuelan out islands. When we reached Bonaire three things broke on the same day. Carry tools to fix things including open and ring spanners.

[HighTemp]

Exactly how many people do you anticipate living on the boat at any given time?
Bunk space is one of my lesser worries. Food storage, especially cold storage is higher on the list of priorities, as is fresh water capacity. Water makers are great, but they often fail at the most inopportune time.

As for Lagoons, Leopards and Fountaine Pajots not being suitable for circumnavigation, all I can say is that there is a whole lot of them that have done it or are currently doing it.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Muz911

Hello!

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have read many posts that look very similar to this. I will try and provide as much information as possible so that you find people, who have much more experience than I do, can help guide our decision-making.

I have some sailing experience mostly racing in Hawaii on Oahu but that was many many years ago...

My wife grew up on boats, but most of it on the Ohio and Mississippi River on motoring boats.

We are both undergoing sailing lessons and getting certifications/chartering as time allows while we save money.

That being said, we are both neophytes to Bluewater sailing, and all advice is welcome and appreciated.

Our plan is to purchase in 18 to 24 months and begin cruising in Bahamas in Mexico for several months before branching out. (Possibly the ARC).

We plan to live aboard and travel around as much as possible without spending much time at the marina and have recently put our house on the market.

Plan currently is to purchase a used catamaran ?+/- 45 ft and retrofit depending on what is needed.

Things I would love your input on would include the following:

Make and model to be watching out for. We have spent hours and hours researching different models of catamarans.
Basically, it would need something large enough to house our family. Currently the girls have a room, the boys have a room, and the parents have a room. Given the size of the births, we would likely need a four room or a three room with a fold out somewhere.

Many people have advised to stay away from Lagoons, Leopards, and FPs because they are so slow and not really built for circumnavigation. (I am interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this since it is our first step in narrowing down the right boat.). Some of the comments I have seen posted, raise concerns about the balsa core construction in some of the more popular brands. Also, concerns for lamination problems in some of the older boats.

Basically, we are looking for something that can provide space for people and provisions while carrying us along at a reasonable pace.

We would prefer some of the comforts of home, water maker, solar, generator, refrigerator, probably 2 deep freezers, Good storage for provisioning. The kids would love some space for kiteboards and scuba gear.

Currently we would prefer a 3 to 10-year-old boat and are looking at Knysna, Seawind, St. Francis, and Balance (although this is a rudimentary list that will likely change.)

We have joined several of the homeschooling websites and groups and we are able to homeschool the children which turns out is a byproduct of COVID-19....

I also wanted to say thank you to all the people who post on here. I have been reading the last couple of years and has really enjoyed the dialogue and the amount of help people are willing to offer.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

(I apologize for the grammatical errors in advance. I am typing this out in my phone).

Muz911

As I read your post my first thought was this guy is wish-booking for the top rung with little knowledge/experience of what it takes...and he has a family of at least four kids of unknown ages. River boating experience is very different than long ocean passages via sailing yacht.

As another has said I would suggest a phased approach to a circumnavigation. As you and your family feels comfortable with boat and lifestyle move to the next phase.

There is much to accomplish before you and your family come to the decision to travel around the world. Besides the boat purchase and outfitting there is acclimating the family to life onboard to include some of the bad times...and there will be some including seasickness, being becalmed (possibly for days), and constant parental hovering in a defined square footage for starters. As my voyage taught me, everyone is gung-ho in the beginning; crew conflicts begin well after departure when your in the middle of the ocean...not everyone is built for a close-quarters life at sea. Preparing the family is as important as preparing the boat.

Good luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Muz911

Hello!

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have read many posts that look very similar to this. I will try and provide as much information as possible so that you find people, who have much more experience than I do, can help guide our decision-making.

I have some sailing experience mostly racing in Hawaii on Oahu but that was many many years ago...

My wife grew up on boats, but most of it on the Ohio and Mississippi River on motoring boats.

We are both undergoing sailing lessons and getting certifications/chartering as time allows while we save money.

That being said, we are both neophytes to Bluewater sailing, and all advice is welcome and appreciated.

Our plan is to purchase in 18 to 24 months and begin cruising in Bahamas in Mexico for several months before branching out. (Possibly the ARC).

We plan to live aboard and travel around as much as possible without spending much time at the marina and have recently put our house on the market.

Plan currently is to purchase a used catamaran ?+/- 45 ft and retrofit depending on what is needed.

Things I would love your input on would include the following:

Make and model to be watching out for. We have spent hours and hours researching different models of catamarans.
Basically, it would need something large enough to house our family. Currently the girls have a room, the boys have a room, and the parents have a room. Given the size of the births, we would likely need a four room or a three room with a fold out somewhere.

Many people have advised to stay away from Lagoons, Leopards, and FPs because they are so slow and not really built for circumnavigation. (I am interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this since it is our first step in narrowing down the right boat.). Some of the comments I have seen posted, raise concerns about the balsa core construction in some of the more popular brands. Also, concerns for lamination problems in some of the older boats.

Basically, we are looking for something that can provide space for people and provisions while carrying us along at a reasonable pace.



We would prefer some of the comforts of home, water maker, solar, generator, refrigerator, probably 2 deep freezers, Good storage for provisioning. The kids would love some space for kiteboards and scuba gear.

Currently we would prefer a 3 to 10-year-old boat and are looking at Knysna, Seawind, St. Francis, and Balance (although this is a rudimentary list that will likely change.)

We have joined several of the homeschooling websites and groups and we are able to homeschool the children which turns out is a byproduct of COVID-19....

I also wanted to say thank you to all the people who post on here. I have been reading the last couple of years and has really enjoyed the dialogue and the amount of help people are willing to offer.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

(I apologize for the grammatical errors in advance. I am typing this out in my phone).

Muz911

Of all the posts of this ilk, yours is probably the most logical I've read. You seem to have done your homework regarding the best brands and construction methods. A typical cruising cat will have four cabins and fit your family with no problem. The question would be how many heads you'll need. I would avoid wet heads and manual toilets. With a good watermaker, you won't need huge fresh water tankage but fuel tanks could be another issue - weight is the big killer on cruising cats. In a perfect world, I'd love electric motors with a good regen capacity but alas, we don't seem to be there yet so diesel Yanmars with a decent genny will need to suffice for now. Most of the brands you've listed will have large hard bimini over the cockpit that should fit a 1.000 watts of solar. Pair that with a big LIFPo4 bank and you should be fine power wise (I'm not real keen on wind generators) Some of the newer cats have cradles built off the transom to carry your dinghy (it's awkward to store a dinghy on the foredeck like a monohull for longer passages). As far as dinghys go I'd spring for an Ocean Tender, made in Kiwi land. They make them to order so there's a wait and they cost a bit more but will outlast a Highfield three times over - so not too bad in the long run. Many popular marinas are limiting dinghy docking to 12' so no paramilitary assault weapons are allowed. Being in kind of the same place you are (but without the kids) I'm kind of leaning toward the Knysnas with the Airex foam core. I find it interesting that big difference in the 440 and the 500SE mostly shows up in the cockpit space with the salons being very similar in size. The newer Seawinds are also very interesting (love that fold-up cockpit door) Both these brands are substantially less money than a Privilage, Bali, or Gunboat for example and will do pretty much what you want to do. I think you can get a Knysna 500SE (new fifty footer) for just under a million US - ready to sail which is less than even the production boats but there's a two year waiting list. It comes with a dishwasher, washing machine. outside beer cooler and ice maker with Lithium and a genny. Get the galley down version (no extra cost). Personally I'd swap the washer for a combo machine and let them keep that stupid bathtub

[jim King]

I wouldn't rule out Leopards or Lagoons. There are more of them on the market than any other catamaran and they will offer you more bang for the buck than any other brand. They may not be as fast to sail as the others you mentioned, but you will most likely be at anchor over 90% of the time, so livability takes precedence over sail ability. I would strongly advise you to take several charter cruises with your family in the Bahamas and Caribbean before you decide which boat you choose. It will let you experience the life on the hook before you make the big plunge. You can also find various charter companies with the brand of boat you want to buy to experience for a week or two before you make a decision.
cheers
jim

[Cpt Mark]

As a multihuller I wouldn't rule out the big 3 but I would look carefully at every boat for the how you will live aboard, meaning where's all your stuff going to go?

I have been on custom cats where there was no headroom and by that I mean to go down into the hulls you had to crawl on all 4's. A common complaint I hear about some of the big 3 cruising cats is the size of the heads. Literally too small for a larger person to squeeze into without it being a challenge. Are you bringing toys? Surfboards etc? Multiple dinghys? Don't know the ages of your kids so this may/may not be an issue. Where are you going to store food stuffs for long passages? Clothes, both winter and summer. A lot of the big cats are all about recreation space and not about living aboard/storage space which is very different.

In my cat Island Packet Yachts, IP 35 Cat, I walk through the head, then shower into the engine room. In the engine room at 6'1" I have near standing headroom and if I emptied the lazarrette out and open the bottom it would be standing headroom as well as clear access the the engine etc on all 4 sides. I looked at a similar sized cat. The engines were under the aft bunks. The bunks had about 18 inches of vertical room at the back 1/3 for your feet. That is also where the engine access was. So to check the oil, you had to remove the bedding and the mattress, crawl back there, remove the cover and contortion your way to the dipstick. The worst design I've seen yet and like a lot of them, the engine is shoehorned into a tiny compartment. How you'd ever service thos engines I couldn't figure out let alone doing on a dark night in a seaway which is always it seems you get to do those jobs.

My suggestion is to go and start looking at different makes/models and see which one appeals to you. If you can charter a couple of different models that would give you more information to start basing your decisions on. Get some real world experience on living in a boat on the water and look hard not at how much fun you're having (it's new and you will) but look at how different boats have different layouts and what features you like for long time living aboard. Then you can start thinking about which make/model.

Right now cats are all the rage and rightly so from my perspective. Like monohulls, boats are built for specific purposes. You are never going to find one where you get everything you want. You could also get a 50' monohull that would also do the job you want as well. Large cats require special locations to haul out, large monos don't. Like I said, everything is a trade off.

[Cabo Jim]

Bahamas is a great place to get your feet wet. It's shallow, they say if your boat sinks you just get out and walk.
Seriously you need to read (study) as much as you can. Read ever book you can on families who went sailing. Plenty of books out there. Currently I am reading one called Chasing the Dream, Tryste Around the World by Val Haigh. It's about Mom, Dad and four daughters on a home built trimaran. I got it at a used book store.
You also absolutely need to get some Blue water experience before you buy a boat.
Blue water sailing is incredibly exhilarating and scary as hell all at the same time. You need to find out your level of comfort. I see you have some experience with blue water, but what about your wife? Many people had the dream until they lost it taking a ride to the third floor in a seaway.

Good Luck

[Chris Cringle]

I hate to rain on your parade, but your focus on space, comfort, amenities, and toy storage, rather than sea-worthless, sea-kindliness, and weatherltness, tells me that you are a dreamer and nowhere near being ready to circumnavigate or even cruise deep water.

[Scorpius]

Forget the ARC. It's WAY too fast! We were in Panama (Colon) when it came through. It was chaos! Everybody trying to get everything fixed in the 48 hours or whatever it was they were scheduled to stay, monopolizing all the services and tradespeople and temporarily driving prices through the roof (and paying exorbitant prices themselves). We and the rest of the (more leisurely) cruisers just hid until they were gone. It was worse than a cruise ship coming in! There's WAY to much to see and experience in this world than to just zoom through it!

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chris Cringle

I hate to rain on your parade, but your focus on space, comfort, amenities, and toy storage, rather than sea-worthless, sea-kindliness, and weatherltness, tells me that you are a dreamer and nowhere near being ready to circumnavigate or even cruise deep water.

Not true at all - any of the big 3 cats in whatever size are demonstrably capable of coconut palm circumnavigating. And their focus is on space, comfort, amenities and toy storage - just what this family wants. Nice full hulls and plenty of capacity for supplies and toys. And arguably the best value for novice sailors.

[HighTemp]

It has been said that it really comes down to compromise when choosing the right catamaran for your purposes. You have performance, volume / comfort and price that are prime considerations. You can usually maximize two of the three to a great degree , but must sacrifice the third to some extent.

The “big” 3 typically offer comfort/volume at a relatively decent price point. The amount of performance that is sacrificed is moderate, but acceptable at least to us.