 |
|
16-12-2024, 02:08
|
#31
|
Moderator
Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Shuttleworth Advantage
Posts: 2,813
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
Rough rule for catanas, older the better, by far and away the best performing Catanas are the Crowther designs, the original 42,
|
Seems to be a trend the better performing Lagoons and FP's were VPLP designs. Since then heads, berths and washing machines seem to be more important.
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 02:15
|
#32
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
Rough rule for catanas, older the better, by far and away the best performing Catanas are the Crowther designs, the original 42,
|
Yes but the 42 had several issues which rotting wood core under eg hull windows.
The best are the 431, 471... before bankruptcy. Build for eternity with the best avaliable was just good enough. Performance combined with liveability and longlevity. Performance drop is negliable to 42s but quality gain is substantial. That's why they went bankrupt...
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 02:33
|
#33
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupaia
Seems to be a trend the better performing Lagoons and FP's were VPLP designs. Since then heads, berths and washing machines seem to be more important.
|
Yes that's definitely the case.
Just compare with FP Belize, Bahia, Lavezzi what came after wards. Slim hulls, rounded pilot house and soft top biminis to safe weight plus windage and long sugar scoops to add water length. Gooseneck is at 1.5 till 2m above deck level to get low center of gravity and sail surface that's 25% above today's same size but with >30% more weight.
FP Lavezzi is foam core vacuum infusion with 6.2t lightship for 40ft and 90sqm sail area, the Bahia with 46ft has 9.5t and 110sqm sail area. That's today's performance cat numbers in the same size.
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 04:41
|
#34
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,463
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet
Yes but the 42 had several issues which rotting wood core under eg hull windows.
The best are the 431, 471... before bankruptcy. Build for eternity with the best avaliable was just good enough. Performance combined with liveability and longlevity. Performance drop is negliable to 42s but quality gain is substantial. That's why they went bankrupt...
|
The 431’s are well known for bulkhead failures, as were the 401?
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 04:57
|
#35
|
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Boat: neptunus 56 fly
Posts: 1,456
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by thuss
After owning 3 monohulls (38-50ft), I'm ready to make the switch to a multihull. I'm in the market for a more performance oriented cat on the smaller side (38-45 feet) and 400k or less. The two I've found so far are the Outremer 45 and the Catana 431 (or newer 42).
Thanks in advance for your feedback, suggestions, and opinions!
|
I think it's useless to discuss until we know how you plan to use that catamaran. Weekends when the weather is nice, live on a boat, charter. 2 weeks a year, do you own a mooring for a boat, are you planning to sail around the world? Do you only sail in the San Francisco Bay, do you sail outside the Bay, etc. Just remember one piece of advice from me. Every boat is a compromise because naturally every boat wants to be at the bottom of the sea. Compromise, compromise and compromise.
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 05:21
|
#36
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
The 431’s are well known for bulkhead failures, as were the 401?
|
Mostly the later ones after the bankruptcy where they replaced the kevlar reinforcements with normal grp. And they were easy to repair inside of closets. If the cat was effected it's done by now.
The issues on the 42 are not so easy to fix eg hull windows.
Catana used plywood inserts were hardware was screwed down like eg winches and these tend to rot if not properly sealed.
The 2 deck hatches at the bow, the wooden inserts are also prone to that.
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 05:35
|
#37
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,463
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet
Mostly the later ones after the bankruptcy where they replaced the kevlar reinforcements with normal grp. And they were easy to repair inside of closets. If the cat was effected it's done by now.
The issues on the 42 are not so easy to fix eg hull windows.
Catana used plywood inserts were hardware was screwed down like eg winches and these tend to rot if not properly sealed.
The 2 deck hatches at the bow, the wooden inserts are also prone to that.
|
Catana went bankrupt in 2003, the same year they stopped producing the 431, so my guess is most if not all were built before bankruptcy?
The one I’m familiar with was a 2000 or 2001. Had just made the Atlantic crossing and was in Florida having the bulkheads and other problems attended to by a friend of mine.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t good boats once sorted.
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 07:28
|
#38
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
Catana went bankrupt in 2003, the same year they stopped producing the 431, so my guess is most if not all were built before bankruptcy?
The one I’m familiar with was a 2000 or 2001. Had just made the Atlantic crossing and was in Florida having the bulkheads and other problems attended to by a friend of mine.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t good boats once sorted.
|
About 80 of 431 where produced and 20 are the "heavier" design.
Can be that all were affected by the bulkhead issue, it's sorted till now unless cat had an accident.
Don't know anything better build in this price range of 350k USD for a 43ft that is also performance then the 431s.
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 07:31
|
#39
|
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Eleuthera 60
Posts: 196
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
$400kUSD ??? Hehehehehe.
The sails alone for a 40’er will cost $40k to replace. Expect to find an empty boat for that price range.
That said, nearly empty boats are ideal all things considered.
Schonning design bots can be found for good prices sometimes and are king of necessity only cruisers that actually sail…
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 07:53
|
#40
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by sv Stella Maris
$400kUSD ??? Hehehehehe.
The sails alone for a 40’er will cost $40k to replace. Expect to find an empty boat for that price range.
That said, nearly empty boats are ideal all things considered.
Schonning design bots can be found for good prices sometimes and are king of necessity only cruisers that actually sail…
|
Hydranet for a 431 genua+main are 26k Euro from north sails, can get for 20k from cheaper lofts.
The 431 my buddy has under contract has D2-50F volvos+saildrives with 300h, czone, newer rig except diamonds...all well maintained except last 2 years. big ticket items after pre survey replace diamonds, new genua and main plus around 15k optical and maintenance stuff for 350k$ accepted offer. The 15k stuff you can easily do yourself for 2-4k.
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 08:10
|
#41
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 99
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
FWIW I would suggest you take a look at Broadblue’s Rapier 400 model
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 08:33
|
#42
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifitsworthdoing
FWIW I would suggest you take a look at Broadblue’s Rapier 400 model
|
Right, a good one in the 40ft range
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 08:53
|
#43
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,463
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by sv Stella Maris
$400kUSD ??? Hehehehehe.
The sails alone for a 40’er will cost $40k to replace. Expect to find an empty boat for that price range.
That said, nearly empty boats are ideal all things considered.
Schonning design bots can be found for good prices sometimes and are king of necessity only cruisers that actually sail…
|
5 years ago a radial cut warp drive main and jib from Calvert ran us about $7,500 for our 40’ TRT1200, can’t see prices have gone up that much?
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 08:55
|
#44
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,463
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet
About 80 of 431 where produced and 20 are the "heavier" design.
Can be that all were affected by the bulkhead issue, it's sorted till now unless cat had an accident.
Don't know anything better build in this price range of 350k USD for a 43ft that is also performance then the 431s.
|
Maybe the 20 heavier designs were the Catana 43 Ocean Class? Seems this is the design they were producing after the bankruptcy?
|
|
|
16-12-2024, 09:56
|
#45
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 294
|
Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Don Buckles is THE authority on Barreau design Catanas:
|
|
|
 |
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|