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12-12-2024, 22:20
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Brisbane/Norway
Boat: Mumby 48
Posts: 351
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
I agree - looks like TRIM. I agree on the pricing comments - if it was in Australia Id be interested but given its in South Africa there is at least 5% duty and GST of 10 to be paid, The GST might be avoidable if it was tims boat and can be proven to be have been built in Australia (at Montes if I remember correctly. )
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I'm not 100%, but that one will have been built in the Philippines. He seems to build one, keep it a few years, move it on, build another. Anything around 2013 onwards will have been built in his yard in the Philippines. Mine is 2013 and it was the last of the shells built by Harwood.
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13-12-2024, 01:36
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#17
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,886
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMurph
I'm not 100%, but that one will have been built in the Philippines. He seems to build one, keep it a few years, move it on, build another. Anything around 2013 onwards will have been built in his yard in the Philippines. Mine is 2013 and it was the last of the shells built by Harwood.
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That makes more sense from a timeline perspective. So it will be plus 10% GST plus 5% duty on import to Australia. If you got it for $600K AUD it would be $690,000 including taxes. Still good boat for that money. But Id love to find one here and not in South Africa. Let me know when you want to give yours away.
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13-12-2024, 04:04
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Brisbane/Norway
Boat: Mumby 48
Posts: 351
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Might be a little while mate!
Logic is on the market locally, but it's going to need a fair bit of updating and the price is way too high IMO.
https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...umby-48/318030
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13-12-2024, 06:29
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,305
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMurph
I'm not 100%, but that one will have been built in the Philippines. He seems to build one, keep it a few years, move it on, build another. Anything around 2013 onwards will have been built in his yard in the Philippines. Mine is 2013 and it was the last of the shells built by Harwood.
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It says 2011 so hardwood.
Is that good or bad if in Philippines build?
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13-12-2024, 06:31
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,305
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMurph
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Why you think that's too expensive? Or what would be good price?
Yes needs cosmetic, lithium and more solar and some interior work but 318k euro sounds OK for me for a 48ft aluminum with around 2500h on the yanmars.
Sails are 22 and 20 beside the spinacker, rig done 2020. As big ticket items.
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13-12-2024, 06:46
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Brisbane/Norway
Boat: Mumby 48
Posts: 351
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Nothing wrong with the Philippines builds. The early boats were built in a few different locations in Australia. Most were fitted out in Tim's yard in the Phillipines. Some, like mine were built by hardwood in Cebu. Mine was in the last batch built there, before he started building the shells in his own yard, because he wasn't that happy with Harwood's work. The boats are strong and structurally sound, but not as fair as they could be. He nicknamed mine "lumpy".
New sails and rigging on Logic are a good selling point, for sure. He spent $$$ on those sail. But it does need interior and exterior cosmetic and most of the systems.....and that adds up. I'd spend the extra 100k and buy the south african one every day of the week.
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13-12-2024, 06:55
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,305
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMurph
Nothing wrong with the Philippines builds. The early boats were built in a few different locations in Australia. Most were fitted out in Tim's yard in the Phillipines. Some, like mine were built by hardwood in Cebu. Mine was in the last batch built there, before he started building the shells in his own yard, because he wasn't that happy with Harwood's work. The boats are strong and structurally sound, but not as fair as they could be. He nicknamed mine "lumpy".
New sails and rigging on Logic are a good selling point, for sure. He spent $$$ on those sail. But it does need interior and exterior cosmetic and most of the systems.....and that adds up. I'd spend the extra 100k and buy the south african one every day of the week.
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So the Philippines hulls are actually better.
Which systems? Sails and rigg o, electronics are midage and good quality. 2500h yanmar should be good too.
Maybe Add a orca core with tablet you have anyhow and you are good in this department nav department too.
Interior is mostly fairing and painting+upholstery.
Question is how the hulls look?
Don't see 100k if you maybe let a yard do all the work, more likley 50k if hulls are good and need no big paintwork restaurantion.
Or what do you see here, what's a good price for this one?
I don't like galley down but for that price range I could compromise on that to get 48ft performance.
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13-12-2024, 07:18
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Brisbane/Norway
Boat: Mumby 48
Posts: 351
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
I was never a fan of galley down, but it really works in these boats. It's totally open between the saloon and the hulls, so you have clear line of sight to the saloon table and helm. It's no a dungeon like so many cats.
Cebu = Phillipines.
Systems. Well, it just depends on what you want right. If you're happy to keep it simple and run old gear that does the job, then Logic will have you out on the water straight away. If you're like me and you want some modern tech, then there's lots to do (batteries, solar, upgrading power distribution, all instruments, AP, plotters, radar etc etc.). The bottom really needs to get blasted back to bare metal (too many delaminating layers of paint (see photos). Floors need to be sanded and polished. The list goes on....std boat stuff that wears out and needs replacing.
As far as I know, there are no structural issue. These are strong boats. If you're serious about buying, I'm happy to take a look for you. Edit: She's in Cairns now, so can't do that!
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13-12-2024, 14:04
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#24
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Riga, Latvia
Posts: 257
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
If Lerouge designed and located here in Europe is OK, then 14-meters 3-cabins 2006 epoxy matrix built NON daggerboards very simple boat @ Eur 260K is waiting for new Owner TLC.
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13-12-2024, 16:43
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 56
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamer
If Lerouge designed and located here in Europe is OK, then 14-meters 3-cabins 2006 epoxy matrix built NON daggerboards very simple boat @ Eur 260K is waiting for new Owner TLC.
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Is that the Lerouge VIK140 that's for sale in Brittany?
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13-12-2024, 20:48
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: R&C Leopard 40
Posts: 1,033
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
__________________
-Chris
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14-12-2024, 12:36
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 21,199
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
How much performance?
E.g. An older Catana 43 will sail blazing fast in the right conditions. My friends clocked +15 knots in a gale, downwind.
https://www.catamaransite.com/brand/catana-431/
Performance is a broad term. Imho any boat that can average her sqrt(LWL) vmg - on a typical downwing rtw route - performs VERY well
ymmv
b.
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14-12-2024, 14:24
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Urbanna, VA
Boat: Lagoon 380 PC Limited Edition
Posts: 455
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
So Outremer since they along with Gunboat and ORC (Marsaudon) are the same company now.
Cheyne
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
Negative.
Outremer is no longer on the performance edge. They took a hard cruising trurn.
And Catana's today are cruising-cruising designs. Bloated with furniture, systems and toys.
Today, to get some performance, you get a Marsaudon.
Like this : https://www.katamarans.com/marsaudon-composites-ts5/
Marsaudon. Now I think called ORC (?)
And then maybe an Outremer. And then lastly Catana.
But, as said, Outremer is no longer performance, and Catana has not been for years.
b.
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14-12-2024, 21:15
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,305
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMurph
I was never a fan of galley down, but it really works in these boats. It's totally open between the saloon and the hulls, so you have clear line of sight to the saloon table and helm. It's no a dungeon like so many cats.
Cebu = Phillipines.
Systems. Well, it just depends on what you want right. If you're happy to keep it simple and run old gear that does the job, then Logic will have you out on the water straight away. If you're like me and you want some modern tech, then there's lots to do (batteries, solar, upgrading power distribution, all instruments, AP, plotters, radar etc etc.). The bottom really needs to get blasted back to bare metal (too many delaminating layers of paint (see photos). Floors need to be sanded and polished. The list goes on....std boat stuff that wears out and needs replacing.
As far as I know, there are no structural issue. These are strong boats. If you're serious about buying, I'm happy to take a look for you. Edit: She's in Cairns now, so can't do that!
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Thanks for the offer. It's for a buddy of mine but he just got the pre survey for a 431 Catana for avcepted 350k$ offer with basically all new and everything is like described and offered. No big ticket items the next 5 years and just a bit cosmetic and more solar. former owner was also a racer on small multihulls so all is top notch. So he will finally go for this 431, can do nothing wrong for this price in this condition and even with the lighter wood. And if he don't then I will see if i can get my 200k investment earlier out...that's really a gem.
I am upgrading in 2 till 3 years also 300-350k budget but keep my eyes already open now and thought Mumby is out of reach but apparently not. Like it's simplicity, keeps running costs down and less to repair and maintain plus very good performance.
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15-12-2024, 16:04
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#30
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,886
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Re: Performance catamarans to consider at 400k or below
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
How much performance?
E.g. An older Catana 43 will sail blazing fast in the right conditions. My friends clocked +15 knots in a gale, downwind.
b.
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Rough rule for catanas, older the better, by far and away the best performing Catanas are the Crowther designs, the original 42,
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