Performance catamarans 40-48 foot range

[poseidon2027]

Hello All,

I am very new to sailing and have a long term plan in motion to purchase a catamaran and sail with my wife in the 7-10 year frame. I know that is a long time aways but I want to start planning now.

I have read a lot about "condomarans" like Lagoon, FP and Leopard, so I am wondering about Performance Cats in the 40-48foot range.

I know about Outremer's, HH, Catanas and others but those all seems to be in the 48+ range. Since it will be just me and the Mrs. and we will be fairly new sailors, from what I have read the 40-45 pushing it to 48 range would be best for us. I've read a lot but cant seems to find any performance cats in that range.

I know there's the 4X and Outremer 45 and probably others, but those may be a little expensive, is there an in-between? Seems like its either Lagoon, FP or over a million dollars!

Lastly, when I am ready to buy I heard its best to buy 1-2 years old, so basically my Cat hasnt been built yet and new models will surely come out in that time, BUT if you could buy a 2 year old performance cat in the 40-48 foot what would it be?

Sorry for the long post, let me know if there are any questions I can answer.

[Narfi]

Have you looked at Seawinds? The 1370 is being hyped alot right now.

Or having a Schionning built for you? Say an arrow 1360, Gforce 1400C or Solitaire? (arrow and gforce you can go up or down in size depending on budget) (Solitaire is a fatter more cruise oriented version probably in line with the production 'performance' boats of similar size)

[HighTemp]

You have posed a fairly open ended question. At 7 to 10 years out it is all but impossible to estimate what a 2 year old cat would cost, performance, cruising or otherwise.

While you are preparing, my advice would be to go and get some training and experience, then do a few charters, on different models and types, the you will have a better idea what type of boat you will ultimately want to purchase.

[poseidon2027]

Yes I know its very hard to judge in 7-10 years, like I said, the cat I end up buying might be a brand new model that doesnt even exist yet.

My question is: right now, what are some performance cats in the 40-48 foot range around 2 years old (maybe 2-5 years is better) so that I can research and charter etc. Start building my list to research. I already know the Lagoons, FP, etc. I want to know the performance ones, not "condomarans".

[elee]

You may have already seen this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EMhGrI6PiE

I realize it is a 50 foot comparison, but shorter than that, performance drops off a lot, so your options will be slim. Some other cats to look at are Seawind, Antares, Catana, Schionning.

Regarding your budget, when you add the moniker "performance" to the catamaran, the price will be at least 30% more for the same waterline, but less interior space. So no, you will not find a performance cat that is as comfortable as a condomaran or for anywhere close to the same price. (Take as examples a Lagoon 46 vs Seawind 1370 vs Outremer 45)

Today, you are not going to find any performance cat 1-2 years old. You're probably not going to find a condomaran either that is less than the price of new. Things may change in 7-10 years. But keep in mind, everyone is looking for a cat 1-3 years old that is in pristine condition but depreciated in price. (Doesn't exist in today's market conditions, but happy to be proven wrong).

Good luck in your search!

[aclmck]

There are lots of cats that fit the bill , many will have you trying to slow them down not go faster, how fast do you want to go? Many of the”condo” style are just what the cruisers want they sail over oceans nicely and have many comforts, you can have some boats that will leave you exhausted just working them, keep reading and look at what “average speed”each brand and size will achieve day in day out, boats I’ve been on that are fast often are full time work. Some fast ones are spirited 38,most all schionning, several seawinds, several catana’s,the list is endless

I know of boats that easily achieve wind speed plus but several days at sea on these you will find that the average speeds are not a lot more than a condo because of the work involved in handling the boats, if you just want to day sail than that’s a different story.

[dougaljackson]

Research and anticipation is half the fun, so here’s a starting point…

Marsaudon Composites ORC42/TS42
Dazcat 1195 & 1295
Balance 442 & 451
Outremer 45
Lightwave 45
Vision 442
Asia Catamarans Stealth 12.2 & 13.2
Seawind 1190 Sport, 1260 & 1370
Nautitech 40 Open
Current Marine (Schionning) CM46
VCAT44
Pandora 13.50
Luna 47
C-Cat 48

OLDER:
Pescott Whitehaven 39
Grainger Chincogan 40

KIT:
Grainger Raku 40 & 44
Schionning Arrow 1200, 1200-S, 1280-S. 1360
Schionning G-Force 1200 & 1400
Spirited 480
Fusion 40
Max Cruise Marine 42SC & 48

[Pleasure II]

Eric Lerouge has designed some great performance cruising cats.

[Phyrcooler]

As aclmck noted, don’t discount all of the so called production cats. The new Isla 40 from FP is pretty sharp, and may make a good couple/cruisers boat. The helm wheel and winches are together and not separated by the helm as their other models have been. I prefer that. The roofline is low without a “flying bridge” seating area - which makes it much easier to deck out with solar, and more importantly, keeps the boom low. It also has an owner’s version with only 2 heads which gives you a nice large head on the guest side instead of two small wet heads. Overall, it has a lot of features I like in a cruising catamaran and isn’t saddled with other undesirable features like other Caribbean Charter cats. I wish they’d make all those changes in a 45’ boat.

But on the performance end, I’m a fan of the Balance brand. All boats are a compromise, and they seem to have it pretty, uh, “Balanced”. The “Versa-helm” on the Balance gives you the best options based on weather and other needs. They’ve made a lot of other design decisions based on feedback from cruisers, and is my top pick. I do like what Seawind is doing in a reasonably priced entry level customizable boat. But some of their design choices, especially the low, looking-through-the-cabin helms are really unappealing to us. Another is that fiddly, folding, crank up door separating the salon from cockpit. Put in a single slightly elevated helm like FP or Leopard or an adjustable helm like Balance (and dump that fiddly door) and I’d be all about the Seawind. You’ll find that everyone has different priorities and “check boxes”, as well as compromises or design choices they’re willing to accept. I’m a few years out from make the switch from mono to Cat… so I’m watching them all with interest.

[Captain Bill]

The OP said his plan is to go sailing with his wife. Does he mean cruising or weekending. My observation is that condomarans handle loads without as much of a performance hit as the performance cats. Once one puts a cruising load on them they may be outrun by a condomaran. My boat is almost the definition of condomaran and I have out run a loaded Catana 44. When we came around he west side of New Providence together on our way to Highborne I expected them to walk away from me quite briskly. We actually beat them to Highborne by over an hour. If op plans on going cruising a decently performing condomaran might work out better than a so called performance cat.

[kiwin]

The very simple rule with boat performance is that longer is faster. So a lagoon 55 is probably as easy to go fast in as a shorter but same dollar value carbon performance gofast special. In addition it will have a shitload more room.
The other truism is that if you double a boats length, then, if everything is proportional the stability increases by SIXTEEN TIMES. And all the above applies to all kinds of boat, not just cats.
Of course such a boat is more expensive to dock and haul out etc.

[Sos]

Depends where you are in the world but here in the UK I would suggest-

Broadblue Rapier 400 or 550

Dazcat

[poseidon2027]

Yes I originally saw the Seawind but gave it another look after your suggestion. The main reason I dont like it is the low, looking-through-the-cabin helms. I really dont like those and considering I would spend most of my time there I think its a no go. Literally everything else (minus the raised bed actually) is perfect though. Thanks for the suggestion.

[poseidon2027]

Originally Posted by dougaljackson

Research and anticipation is half the fun, so here’s a starting point…

Marsaudon Composites ORC42/TS42
Dazcat 1195 & 1295
Balance 442 & 451
Outremer 45
Lightwave 45
Vision 442
Asia Catamarans Stealth 12.2 & 13.2
Seawind 1190 Sport, 1260 & 1370
Nautitech 40 Open
Current Marine (Schionning) CM46
VCAT44
Pandora 13.50
Luna 47
C-Cat 48

OLDER:
Pescott Whitehaven 39
Grainger Chincogan 40

KIT:
Grainger Raku 40 & 44
Schionning Arrow 1200, 1200-S, 1280-S. 1360
Schionning G-Force 1200 & 1400
Spirited 480
Fusion 40
Max Cruise Marine 42SC & 48

Yes, you get it lol. Thanks for this list it will definitely keep me busy.

[poseidon2027]

Originally Posted by aclmck

There are lots of cats that fit the bill , many will have you trying to slow them down not go faster, how fast do you want to go? Many of the”condo” style are just what the cruisers want they sail over oceans nicely and have many comforts, you can have some boats that will leave you exhausted just working them, keep reading and look at what “average speed”each brand and size will achieve day in day out, boats I’ve been on that are fast often are full time work. Some fast ones are spirited 38,most all schionning, several seawinds, several catana’s,the list is endless

I know of boats that easily achieve wind speed plus but several days at sea on these you will find that the average speeds are not a lot more than a condo because of the work involved in handling the boats, if you just want to day sail than that’s a different story.

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

As aclmck noted, don’t discount all of the so called production cats. The new Isla 40 from FP is pretty sharp, and may make a good couple/cruisers boat. The helm wheel and winches are together and not separated by the helm as their other models have been. I prefer that. The roofline is low without a “flying bridge” seating area - which makes it much easier to deck out with solar, and more importantly, keeps the boom low. It also has an owner’s version with only 2 heads which gives you a nice large head on the guest side instead of two small wet heads. Overall, it has a lot of features I like in a cruising catamaran and isn’t saddled with other undesirable features like other Caribbean Charter cats. I wish they’d make all those changes in a 45’ boat.

But on the performance end, I’m a fan of the Balance brand. All boats are a compromise, and they seem to have it pretty, uh, “Balanced”. The “Versa-helm” on the Balance gives you the best options based on weather and other needs. They’ve made a lot of other design decisions based on feedback from cruisers, and is my top pick. I do like what Seawind is doing in a reasonably priced entry level customizable boat. But some of their design choices, especially the low, looking-through-the-cabin helms are really unappealing to us. Another is that fiddly, folding, crank up door separating the salon from cockpit. Put in a single slightly elevated helm like FP or Leopard or an adjustable helm like Balance (and dump that fiddly door) and I’d be all about the Seawind. You’ll find that everyone has different priorities and “check boxes”, as well as compromises or design choices they’re willing to accept. I’m a few years out from make the switch from mono to Cat… so I’m watching them all with interest.

Thank you for this, I definitely liked hearing it. Our main first choice is actually the FP Isla 40. I just read in other places that construction and quality of the FP's are not the best. They said to stick to Lagoon if im going this route. Its a shame because we really fell in love with the Isla 40. Then I kept going down the rabbit hole and started learning about performance cats and the differences.

Now I just dont know. Maybe a condo in the 44-46 ala Lagoon 450s or Helia 44 may be the best way. But those are honestly too big inside for us. Why doesnt a 45 foot catamaran with the interior of a 40 foot catamaran exist? In the end i think thats what im looking for to get the best of both worlds, doesnt look like it exists though.