Perfect sized catamaran for ocean sailing is 40ft!

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

If you plan on crossing an ocean the perfect size catamaran is whichever size you would feel most comfortable living on...upside down.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew who have built catamarans but refuse to sleep in Gumby suits.

Which obviously invites the response that if you cross oceans in a mono the perfect size is one you feel comfortable on at the bottom of the ocean, I refuse to sleep in scuba gear

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Cabin Boy Mark I think you are fishing for a bite, a dugong should always self right with ballast in its gut but lash two dugongs together and you have different issues altogether. But the risk is fairly low for capsizing two dugongs. I think there is a more of a chance of two dugongs breaking your bank account than anything else. It takes a lot of paint, polish and time to maintain the surface area of two dugongs.
Cheers

I've seen plenty of dull dugongs. Never seen a bright one yet....

[Rimica]

I think the size depends on the model and the type of cruising you want to do. A performance cruising cat would need to be longer than 40ft as the hulls are narrow. The load carrying capacity needs to meet the need of extended cruising which would dictate a longer loa. A more leisurely cruising style would be content with a shorter vessel in the 40 to 45 feet as the hull would be wider and therefore the load capacity can be met with shorter loa.

I have read a long time ago that the dynamic water flow requirement of a catamaran is ill served by anything shorter than 42 feet but I cannot locate that article anymore.

[GBR134]

Originally Posted by Tomodore

I have been sailing for 30 years and the majority of sailors I have met feel their boat is the perfect size, right up to the time they upsize, downsize or move to power. It used to be if you had a roller fueling headsail you were not seaworthy because of new technology. Now it seems some folks feel an electric winch is a problem. Systems on boats are always in need of attention, I have found that if I keep the water out and the mast up I can find a work around for the rest. It helps to be lucky, handy and rich, in that order.
Opinionated Sailor

If only I could try the rich bit - I’d change my current ideal boat in a heart beat! + I wouldn’t use my DIY skills nearly as much😁

[capn_billl]

Bigger tgan 40 starts limiting available slips, or a big boost in price.

I'm very comfortable with that size, very handle able for two people, and stable in moderate storms.

Every time I have to lift the 200lb mainsail, or stand on tippy toes to flake it, I'm very glad I didn't go any bigger.

[boatman61]

This is as big a fallacy as the 'Blue Water' boat..
My favourite for voyaging would be a Tiki 38, big enough to carry everything two people could need, very seaworthy, good bridgedeck clearance and simple/easy to maintain in out of the way locations.
Others would not be happy with anything less than a 50ft condomaran with freezer, fridges, A/C, washing machine etc, etc..
It just boils down to whether you want to escape the hassles and expenses of land life, or take them with you

[markiobe]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

40ft is about the maximum size cat than can be operated manually by a single person (one half of a couple). Beyond 40ft there becomes an increasing requirement for mechanical aids, electric winches and the like.



Due to the improvements and availability in aid devices this limitation is somewhat outdated.

Just not true. The issue about needing electrics to help is a function of weight and how easily the boat is driven through the water and that only relates to length if the building methods are identical.

You can happily build a strong 50ft cat with narrow hulls for 6/7 tons if you know what you're doing. That will be very easily driven and the loads are therefore much less, obviating the need for electrics.

On the other hand if you want to buy a Lagoon, FP, etc 40ft you've got very bluff hulls and shockingly heavy build (9-11 tons) and you'd probably need some electrics as all of the loads will be lots higher.

If you don't believe me about the loads, go and sail a 49er (94kgs) against a Laser 5000 (170kgs), very similar sail area (49er slightly more) . The sheet loads on the L5000 are waaayyy heavier!

[PMCunha]

Originally Posted by Cat_sailor

At least that's what this article suggests. Whats your opinion. I feel it is a little bit on the short side!?
https://www.catamaranfreedom.com/bes...nd-liveaboard/Attachment 237790

IMHO it’s short. I’ve recently done over 2000nm on a Lagoon400, crossing Gibraltar, Biscay, etc. and I’d go with the 450.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by markiobe

Just not true. The issue about needing electrics to help is a function of weight and how easily the boat is driven through the water and that only relates to length if the building methods are identical.

You can happily build a strong 50ft cat with narrow hulls for 6/7 tons if you know what you're doing. That will be very easily driven and the loads are therefore much less, obviating the need for electrics.

On the other hand if you want to buy a Lagoon, FP, etc 40ft you've got very bluff hulls and shockingly heavy build (9-11 tons) and you'd probably need some electrics as all of the loads will be lots higher.

If you don't believe me about the loads, go and sail a 49er (94kgs) against a Laser 5000 (170kgs), very similar sail area (49er slightly more) . The sheet loads on the L5000 are waaayyy heavier!

A Lagoon, FP etc 40ft you have a fully battened mainsail of sub 60sqm.



A 50ft cat has a fully battened mainsail of 80-100sqm and raising such a sail is not sensibly do able for a half of a crew couple and a PITA for the other half without electric assitance. So not impossible just not "perfect".

[CarlF]

An ICW height mast only applies to people on the East coast of the US who want to go on the ICW. I've had six round trips from New England to Florida on the ICW and "been there - done that". My new catamaran is 50ft and has a 78ft mast because I plan to spend my time in the ocean not the ditch.

I also think refusing to use electric motors - even on a 40ft cat - is silly. Maybe that was a factor 20 years ago but with today's battery banks and improved electric winches the only reason to stay with manual is that they are cheaper.

The big reason to go above 40ft is to have a boat that's more comfortable in ocean swells - with a lot of bridge deck height, high load carrying capacity and a long waterline. This makes it easier for the designer to keep weight out of the ends to reduce hobby horsing - which can be just awful in an overloaded 40ft cat that will slam in even a moderate swell.

The only way I'd go with a 40ft cat would be to get a very light one - and not have air conditioning, washer/dryer, big anchor, 300ft of chain and the other things I can put on a 50ft cruising cat without overloading it.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I also think refusing to use electric motors - even on a 40ft cat - is silly. Maybe that was a factor 20 years ago but with today's battery banks and improved electric winches the only reason to stay with manual is that they are cheaper.

Yep. Totally concur. The 40ft limit is outdated and comes from a time when electric aids were too expensive or just not available.


How many small to medium size ketches are built nowadays? Compare that to the hundreds that were built in the 70's and 80's. The reasoning was because it limited the individual sails size to within the manual capacity of a single average crew member.



Not sailing or sheeting but raising the sails in the first place.

[CaptainMarkS]

As with so many topics, "perfect size" is subjective. Generally, the longer the cat, the better it handles weather / waves. Then there's the trade off with costs. Every foot adds costs for marinas (charging per foot), sails (charging per square foot), etc... Above 50', marinas' ability to accommodate becomes restrictive. There will be occasions where, regardless of 40' or 50', a second crew is necessary: for example, docking and anchoring. As for sail management, we chose in mast furling to avoid requiring having to go forward to raise / lower the sail and it gives infinite reefing options (as do our furling foresails). We are perfectly happy with our 44' cat in terms of comfort, performance, and ability to single hand while underway if necessary.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by Cat_sailor

At least that's what this article suggests. Whats your opinion. I feel it is a little bit on the short side!?
https://www.catamaranfreedom.com/bes...nd-liveaboard/Attachment 237790

The perfect size is one that you can afford, sail, & maintain. We saw this inflatable one while in Tahiti.... there were 4 people onboard.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

The perfect size is one that you can afford, sail, & maintain. We saw this inflatable one while in Tahiti.... there were 4 people onboard.

That looks like the inflatable catamaran 5 Siberians circumnavigated on starting in Phuket.. real characters.
Crossing the Indian ocean they escaped two boatloads of pirates by leap frogging over a reef leaving the pirates behind.

[boatman61]

https://www.rbth.com/travel/2013/03/...ran_24467.html